DTS question again

WD Legacy Products WD TV Live & Live Plus
1

I hav ahd the WD Live for awhile and with my old projection TV, I could only get sound* to come through the speakers if I set the WD to “setero” and not digital. This was a pain for those movie I wanted to listen to in surround via the TOSLINK and my Onkyo receiver (I would have to switch the WD back to digital). I just upgraded my TV to a Samsun L46C630 which has DTS decoding (unlike my old TV). Yet when the WD is set to digital, I still get no sound in my TV speakers.

*I am hooked up to my TV via HDMI and the file is anything (MKV, MP4, etc) that has DTS.

What’s the deal? I thought the WD would pass the DTS signal to the TV but just not decode it.

Help please!

2

I can’t find anything about that model online…   Are you sure that’s the correct model number?

I haven’t seen too many TV’s that do DTS, so you have a rarity to start with.  ;)

I only found one model on Samsung’s website:    LN46C630K1FXZA

and its manual says nothing of supporting DTS out its own speakers.

3

sorry it’s the L_ N _46C630 and I just got off the phone with Samsung’s level 2 support and they confrimed that this TV does have the DTS license and can decode that signal. Also, on page 32 of that manual it has suppoerted video codecs and is says MKV and DTS-Core, if that helps.

And if you google the model adn DTS, you’ll see it advdertised that way.

The WDTVLIVE will send the DTS signal to my receiver via TOSLINK and it comes through perffect there, just not through the TV.

I wouldn’t even care if there was a way to have the WD’s HDMI set to “stereo” and the TOSLINK set to “digital”, since I have to use the TOSLINK for surround sound anyway.?

4

rbico wrote:

Also, on page 32 of that manual it has suppoerted video codecs and is says MKV and DTS-Core, if that helps.

And if you google the model adn DTS, you’ll see it advdertised that way.

 

Yes it does say that, but only in the context of playing files from attached USB devices or network sources. There is no other mention in the manual of being able to play DTS, e.g. through HDMI connections.

I do recall reading somewhere that Samsung TVs have different capabilities depending upon the source (i.e. HDMI v.s. USB/network). Unfortunately I don’t recall where but it was probably AVSForum or Twonkymedia forum.

5

Right.   MOST TV’s can do 5.1 surround for content that originates on the TV itself. (Over-the-Air broadcasts, CATV, and DLNA Media for example,)  but CANNOT decode UPSTREAM media.

6

Thanks, but That sounds wrong and forgive me but these sound like guesses. Why would Samsung’s DTS processor include DLNA that nobody (most people) don’t use but it wouldn’t include the highest quality, most commonly used interface (HDMI)? And why woulld it incoluide cable (CTV), which has a notoriously crappy picture and rarely DTS sound? And who uses an antenna or air signal? 90-year olds and what good would DTS be for them?

the irony is that I prefer regular 5.1 over DTS. DTS is quieter for speech and the difference in surround experience is minimal to me.

7

there has to be a way of finding out if it’s the WD or my TV. Any thoughts?

8

Just a heads-up that WD’s support for MP4 containers does not (currently) include bitstreaming AC-3 or DTS.

Limit your testing of DTS to MKV files or other containers that support it (AVI, M2TS and ISO).

9

CTV and OTA are both DIGITAL in most markets, and has excellent PQ and includes Dolby 5.1 on most broadcasts.   I don’t know where you live, but at least that’s the case here in the USA, and I thought we were BEHIND the rest of the world.

I use an OTA Antenna on my Master BR TV (so I can watch a third program on the networks when the TiVo is busy recording two others on FiOS) , and am quite pleased that its picture quality is BETTER than what comes in over my Digital CATV, because the Cable operators do additional bandwidth compression compared to what the broadcast networks do.   The networks have sole use of their own carrier, whereas CATV head-ends puts MULTIPLE logical channels on the same physical channel.

Besides that, DTS isn’t used in Broadcast TV.  DD5.1 is, so that was admittedly confusing… 

Call Samsung back up and ask them specifically:   “Can my TV decode DTS digital streams from another device that is connected via HDMI.”

If the CSR tells you anything other than NO, they would seem to be contradicting their own documentation;  there is NOTHING in the documentation that even suggests that DTS is supported on ANYTHING other than USB-connected devices.  Even then, it doesn’t DECODE it to anything other than STEREO (just like your WDTV is doing), it just sends the DTS out the TOSLINK port to be decoded by an AVR receiver.  

The specifications of the TV says that it supports “DTS 2.0+ Digital Out.”  Right?    That means all it can do is pull 2.0 channels out of a DTS core, and send the 5.1 out the digital output.   But that is specific to the USB stuff; not HDMI.

You have proven it yourself in that your TV is not giving you AUDIO when set to DIGITAL.   I can tell you certainly that DTS works fine on HDMI.  

Now, the GLOSSYs seem to differ from  what the Manual says.

If INDEED, it DOES support full DTS decode from HDMI, then apparently it’s sending bad EDID data to the Live telling it that it CANT do it, or the WDTV is misinterpreting it.

10

My reading of the manual, is that it will decode HDMI audio to stereo, because the manual says the TV will only output it through the TV speakers as 2.0, and that if you want full 5.1, you need to connect the player directly to the receiver/surround amp.

So, based on that, my guess is that during the handshake, the TV is (rightly) telling the WDTV that it can’t handle 5.1 Audio.  So, you’d need to set the WDTV to “Stereo” to get any audio through the TV’s 2.0 speakers.

11

I live in Seattle and have Comcast and it is ■■■■. Even before this TV there was pixellation on the HD channels. They sent a tech out wiht a meter, he found a leak and spent 2 hours resetting a new cable which didn’t leak - according to the metere – and it did nohting to the picture quality.With the new TV it is just more obvious how lame our cable service is… Since Comcast couldn’t help, I went online and found ENDLESS posts about compression and how CTV (Comcast in particular) **bleep**. it can look good at times, but for what we spend, it isn’t very good. My point is that HDMI wasn;t developed for over-air broadcasts, right>?

As for the manual, I don’t see where it says it is solely from the USB. It just says what I wrote. Samsung level 2 tech (if that really even means anything) says it can decode a DTS signal; I don’ty see much wiggle room in that statement. plus if it can decode DTS via USB what good would it do if it can’t send that out to my receiver via the TOSLINK and only play it throguh the inherant stereo speakers? And even the WD can make my DTS stereo (if I selecct it instead of digigtal), and they say it cannot decode DTS.

And for the TOSSLIK, it is the HDCP and Intels copyright BS that prevents the audio from being sent out from the tV. So far this is the dumbest thing I have encountered as they have no right to the content.

12

rbico wrote:

As for the manual, I don’t see where it says it is solely from the USB.

It doesn’t get ANY audio over HDMI – just the RCA jacks.

“When using an HDMI/DVI cable connection, you must use the HDMI IN 1(DVI) jack for video. A DVD, Blu-ray
player, HD cable box, HD STB satellite receiver, cable box, or STB satellite receiver may require a DVI-HDMI (DVI
to HDMI) cable or DVI-HDMI (DVI to HDMI) adapter. The PC/DVI AUDIO IN jack is required for audio.”

and

“If you want to hear 5.1 CH audio, connect the digital audio out jack from your DVD / Blu-ray player / cable box / STB satellite receiver directly to an amplifier or home theater.”

13

DVI doesn’t carry an audio signal unlike HDMI, so of course you woudl need some other way to transfer audio. You shouldn’t need a separate audio cable  for a HDMI standad (i.e no DVI)

and

the second part of what you wrote is from the manual an explains why you cannot get DTS or 5.1 via TOSLINKL - I alreqdy new that, HDCP

what I want to know is why, when I hve my WD hooked up via HDMI (which carries HD video AND audio) I don’t get any sound when the signal is DTS, even though my TV does decode DTS.

14

Find a friend that has an HDMI receiver that does DTS.   Plug your Live in there.   Play a DTS audio track.   See if it works.  If it does, you’ve found your answer.

15

Here’s more fodder to chew on:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19035614&highlight=dts#post19035614

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18869269&highlight=dts#post18869269

which says, in part:  “In short, no DTS through HDMI.”

In short, everyone on AVSFORUM that talks about DTS only talks about USB media and DLNA…  HDMI isn’t going to work; the TV DOES NOT SUPPORT IT.

16

Your fitrst link just says DTS works via USB and the TV’s internal media play software. He says he’ll check to see if it works through HDMI, but there is no follow-up.

The second link is just one person saying it doesn’t work – and this guy is a new member with 5 posts, not a guru by any sense and he couldn’t get it resolved via Samsung tech, which doesn’t mean much. I can say from experience that Samsung Techs are not that great. I was told by three different techs on three different calls that if I  sent a movie with 5.1 audi to the TV via HDMI, that it would output that 512 audio to my recevier via the TOSLINK. This has been proven to be false but the techs there didn’t know it. They were 100% sure it would work…it didn’t.

Most concerns on that site - avs forum which I spent countelss hoursw on - have to do with sending 5.1/DTS through the TV’s optical out, not the TV dealing with DTS ingternally.

You may be right that the TV doesn’t support DTS via HDMI, although that doesn’t really amke much sense. I will find a standard DVD with DTS tongiht and play it on the TV from my DVD player. If the DTS comes through the speakers on the TV<, then it has to be the WD box, right?

17

rbico wrote:

You may be right that the TV doesn’t support DTS via HDMI, although that doesn’t really amke much sense. I will find a standard DVD with DTS tongiht and play it on the TV from my DVD player. If the DTS comes through the speakers on the TV<, then it has to be the WD box, right?

Sounds like a good test to me. :slight_smile:

You don’t seem to have mentioned it but what firmware are you using?

18

No.   That’s not necessarily valid unless you ABSOLUTELY make sure that the DVD player is SENDING DTS, not doing its OWN decode.   In other words, DVD players can behave exactly like your WD is behaving when you set it to STEREO.

I think my LG BD player terms it “PRIMARY PASSTHROUGH.”  but it has a bunch of other modes:

PCM:  (Decodes internally and sends stereo)

PCM MC: (Sends discrete PCM to the decoder downstream)

DTS: Decodes the stream, then RE-ENCODES it as DTS and sends downstream to HDMI.

Primary Passthrough: Sends the raw stream to a device that has LPCM, DD, DD+, DD TruHD, DTS, and DTS-HD decoders.

19

By the way, if you happen to have a Windows PC with an HDMI or DVI video interface, you can plug it into an HDMI port on your TV and run this program:

http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

and it will pull the technical details from the TV, included the supported audio types.

My LG, for example, says this:

CE audio data (formats supported)
  LPCM 2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48 kHz

whereas my AVR says:

CE audio data (formats supported)
  LPCM 2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48/88/96/176/192 kHz
  LPCM 8-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48/88/96/176/192 kHz
  AC-3 6-channel, 640k max. bit rate at 32/44/48 kHz
  DTS 7-channel, 1536k max. bit rate at 44/48/88/96 kHz
  SACD 2-channel at 44/88/176 kHz
  DD+ 8-channel at 44/48 kHz
  DTS-HD 8-channel, 16-bit at 32/44/48/88/96/176/192 kHz
  DVD-A 8-channel at 32/44/48/88/96/176/192 kHz
20

well I might try all of this, but I just played 2 movies with ONLY AC3 5.1 audio and I get no audio from my TV with the WD set to digital. i seem to remember this with my old set as well. Is THAT normal?

Also, wehn I select the digital without HDMI audio, I cannot connect to my network. It just says  “the network cannot be accessed”.

I installed the latest firmwaware the other day. 1.4.someting.