I have 2 My Cloud personal devices. The first is a 3 TB device that is several years old, and is used as the “normal” device for storage, backups, etc. for both PC and Mac devices, etc. The second is a newer, 4TB device that was obtained primarily for safepoint backups. This setup was working well, until recently, when my MacBook Pro backups started failing with verification messages from the Macbook/Catalina. Contacting Apple support has not been helpful - the backup works for a backup or two, then an hourly backup fails with the same message. NO other errors are posted.
Thinking I had a problem with Catalina, I decided to try a backup to the other My Cloud box - the one used for the safepoint backups. Low and behold, the TimeMachine backups worked as intended, with no more verification errors. It has been doing so for several weeks now.
The conclusion I am drawing from this is that the original My Cloud is suffering from some hardware issues that are not be reported from the WD box. So - “WHAT DO YOU THINK?”
I am looking at replacing the first box with a new device - possibly a My Cloud EX. Again, “WHAT DO YOU THINK?” Do you have a different suggestion?
Note: In general internet posting etiquette, using all caps is a form of shouting.
Why not just reverse the My Cloud devices so the one that works properly with the Mac backups is the main device, and use the problematic one for the Safepoint backup.
Which specific My Cloud EX model are you looking at? There are a number of different “EX” My Cloud models.
Personally, I’d consider looking at other NAS manufacturers. Yes, some manufacturers (Qnap and Synology) tend to be more expensive, but you generally get a more mature/stable OS, often better hardware, and more features.
Go with a 4 disk bay drive, will cover you in the future from having to upgrade. instead of 2 my cloud i would go 4 disk syn/qnap etc… Since WD doesnt really take security as a concern, I wouldnt recommend buying another WD Product just so you can get ransomware and be out even more money… Good luck! Also I would run a raid mirror. 2 disks of your data and 2 disks running mirrors.
“Personally, I’d consider looking at other NAS manufacturers. Yes, some manufacturers (Qnap and Synology) tend to be more expensive, but you generally get a more mature/stable OS, often better hardware, and more features”
not sure that I would disagree with this heretical advice.
For straight line backups and access with FileExplorer. . .these units are fine. But once you start talking fancy stuff. . . . .the WD software development is very limited.
Have been looking at other NAS devices as suggested. This brings up some elementary questions I suppose, and I will try to be generic so not to step on vendor toes… Do the devices that come without drives allow some flexibility in whose disks I put into the bay? In other words can a WD drive be compatible with the Synology device - it seems so from what I a seeing, but want to be sure.
The second question is about what I should look at. My current configuration is intended to be a device and a backup to it. In my experiences with the failure, I have had to violate that design, but I don’t want that long term. It would seem that a 2 bay NAS running RAID 1 would provide a similar setup to my original design - a disk and a backup, but in a single device. A 4 bay NAS would provide a backup to the configuration, but in a single enclosure. Let’s face it - 2 sepaarate devices, as I now have configured on different floors of the my house is not off site backup, but a 4 bay device would provide lesss physical situation. In my mind, the 2 bay setup would provide autobackup of the data via the RAID-1 mirroring, which isn’t in 2 separate rooms, but the mirrored writing would be better than having a copy of one device to the other at some pre-arranged time.
Am I missing something?
PS - I’m 73, and used to work on Systems Programming on Mainframe systems. These are not new concepts, but I have been away from it for over 15 years. We would have always had offsite data backup… but not for my home devices!
You are 73. . . so you are over 40. that means you probably have a safe deposit box somewhere. . . .that would be a good spot for an offsite backup (say, a small external drive)
So if you are worried about HDD failures. . . a Raid 1 2-bay NAS is a good solution.
Of course, the box itself is a potential point of failure (granted. . .with a lower failure rate). Either due to electronics failure, user error (bad firmware update), or an environmental factor (i.e. fire). For that reason, you want an offsite backup on another device.
My method: No data on a PC. 1 external drive with my “stuff”. Data backed up to the NAS. (NAS also acts as a media server using the media “backup”).
Third set of “stuff” on an external drive away from home. (this third set has data 12 months old).
I also have a doomsday (say, ransomware) archive - - - my working external drive is replaced every year or two and placed somewhere offline. That way, if some ransomware comes knocking and nails my external drive AND the NAS. . . then I only use the last year or so of data.
Yes, I am paranoid. And I buy 4TB external drives like candy.
Have I been burned? No. I have had one or two O/S HDD’s in PC’s fail over the years. . … I have had a house get kinda messed up by a natural disaster. But no data lost.
Regarding HDD’s: Can’t comment on using different brands. Should be plug and play… Whatever you buy: Make sure it has CMR and not SMR disks in it. At this point. . . with the confusion in the market place, I would probably buy an enclosure and buy the disks separately.
Of course. SATA hard drives can generally be used in any diskless NAS enclosure reguardless of who makes it. They’re just hard drives. Many NAS box manufacturers will have a “recommended” list of drives they’ve tested with their NAS box. Of course WD will suggest using WD drives in their diskless NAS enclosures, but most other drive manufacurers drives will work.
Certain hard drives are designed specifically for NAS use. Like the WD Red and now the WD Red Pro line. Certain hard drives use SMR technology which causes issues in certain NAS enclosures. Plenty of online articles and blog posts discuss the SMR issue with NAS boxes.
It comes down to what you intended to use the device for, how much you can afford to spend, and if you need offsite backup storage. Bottom line is proper disaster prep is often very expensive. You need to figure out how important your data is and then how much money your willing to spend to preserve that data. But understand that at the end of the day, hard drives (including those used in offsite cloud storage) can and do fail.
Other things to consider. Are you going to stream media from the NAS. Do you need a Plex Media Server that is capable of transcoding media. Do you need expandability. Do you need a specific RAID setting. Do you need remote access. Do you need USB ports for adding additional USB hard drives. Do you need the NAS to run a web server, or other services/programs. Are just a few things to consider.
The debate over how many bays to get will come down to how much storage space you need. And how the NAS box will be configured (RAID, JOBD, etc.). For business use or mission critical data a four or more bay NAS box may better as you can setup more redundancy and more storage. For home/personal use a 2 bay may be better depending on one’s needs.
Most NAS boxes now include a USB port where one can attach a USB hard drive(s) for extra storage or to use as a backup target for the NAS box drives. This does allow one to have a number of USB drives that are used in a rotational backup process where you could rotate the storage of those USB drives offsite if one was so inclined. This would negate the need to pay for offsite storage and copy the data across the internet to that offsite storage location.
A personal anecdote. Last year I looked into replacing a single bay/single drive My Cloud unit. I looked at many offerings. Narrowed things down to an EX2 Ultra initially. But after much consideration, and much more research. Decided to wait till Black Friday to see if there would be any better deals on better more capable units from Synology or Qnap. Black Friday rolls around and there are a number of sales on both hard drives and NAS boxes. Settled on a 2 bay DS218+ and two 12TB WD Easystore (shucked) hard drives. Price was a bit more than if I had gone with an EX2 Ultra and shucked drives, but gained way more features, better hardware, expandable RAM, and a more mature/stable operating system. The ability to transcode with Plex (when or if I need to) was also a plus. I backup the DS218+ nightly to a USB hard drive (an existing WD Easystore I had) attached to the DS218+. I also backup certain Shares to other USB hard drives attached to local PC’s as additional backup protection. With the included Synology programs I backup multiple PC’s to the DS218+ on a weekly basis. For my needs this works great. For others it may not. It all comes down to one’s needs and what they can afford.
I considered it, but there are a couple of things that caused me to discard that idea. First, the first drive is smaller (3TB vs 4TB), and so that meant I would be backing up to a maller drive, where space could become an issue. Second, the drive that would become the backup drive is the one that is having the issue with the backup - perhaps the media is failing, but I don’t look at that device as a reliable long term device. Finally, on the WD management page for the larger device, the status always shows “Rebuilding”. From my research, and your suggestions, It looks like a reasonable setup - I will wind up replacing both WD devices when complete.
I have one last question before I pull the trigger on the order - How is the management software? My main Laptop is a MacBook pro. It appears from watching video reviews on YouTube that it amounts to what appears to be a web based set of tools and Apps that are available thru the NAS - is that correct? It appears to be easy to use.
Thanks for all of your assistance and advice - it has been most helpful.
How is the management software for what? Which device are you looking at? WD or some other device?
I don’t have any other My Cloud device other than a first gen single bay so I cannot comment on the My Cloud Dashboard in mulibay My Cloud models. There were some issues with the single bay Dashboard that lead me to want additional options which in turn lead me to investigate more options in other devices.
For Synology it depends on what you buy. On the DS218+ they have a web based management page for the DSM OS used on the unit. There are additional Windows, Macintosh, Linux, Android and iOS programs/apps/modules that are available. I personally haven’t used many of them but they are there if needed. Examples:
I have a first gen MyCloud; and a more modern EX2 ultra.
Without question;
EX2 Ultra software (i.e. web dashboard) is very similar in form and function to the MyCloud
The EX2 however, definitely has more features, and is a step up from the MyCloud software.(think evolutionary improvements; rather than revolutionary).
The EX2 Ultra is definitely FASTER and Better performing than the MyCloud. Web interface is faster. Streaming seems better.
Overall, not a bad choice.
Can’t really comment on the other brands in any detail.
Doh! Sorry about that - I intended to put the info in the note, but my wife had me on duty trying to get an order for a Christmas Present for our Grandson - went on pre-sale this afternoon, and so my email got written in 2 parts. And I left out the key part.
I am looking at the Synology DS220+ with two WD Red+ 4TB drives. Management SW seems to be well done, at least better than WD MyCloud is, but I am a recent MAC convert, so I am careful. Appears that it doesn’t matter, since it is web based.
And to quote Columbo = “One more question” - if I need to go to a bigger drive down the road, migration is not a big deal, is it?
I have never done it; but I understand the WD EX2/EX4 units do provide a (relatively) painless drive upgrade path when you are configured for Raid redundancy.
Again; if buying separate drives: Be mindful of the CMR/SMR issue. 4TB reds are currently 5400rpm SMR disks. Not sure you want that. You want 4TB Red plus (CMR 5400 rpm). The Red Pro; which I believe are 7200rpm CMR may not be needed for general use
Personally, I would go BIG on drives. Never heard anyone complain “this drive is too big”.
Generally no, its not a big deal. It comes down to how you setup the device initially. Certain settings chosen during setup may mean one might have to backup their entire drive to another location, replace the drive(s), copy/restore the data back. In other cases one replaces one of the drives with a larger drive, let the system setup that drive (and mirror the data), then one can install the second hard drive to replace the remaining smaller one.
Can I use larger hard drive(s) to expand the storage capacity on Synology Product (for DSM 2.2 and onward)?
Yep. Best to go as big as one can afford when it comes to both hard drive size and with user installable RAM if the NAS box supports adding RAM.
Went with 12TB drives even though I’ll probably never utilize all that space. Currently using around 5TB to 6TB.
Funny that some are making such a big deal about the WD Red SMR drives when the single bay/single drive units came with WD Red drives. Including the ever popular WD Red 4TB that so many seem to buy when they go on sale. In a diskless NAS box I’d avoid SMR. With prepopulated NAS boxes one is stuck with what ever drive they ship it with.
SMR drives started hitting the market around 2013 (at least per Wikipedia) by Seagate. WD of course has been a bit tight lipped on their SMR drives until recently (4/20) when the put out this PDF.
They list a number of 2-6TB WD Reds which are SMR. While the odds of them being in single bay My cloud models are unknown, its possible people bought these (affected WD Reds) on the open market for use in their NAS boxes.
As far as I can tell, WD started putting SMR drives into the Red product line around March 2019,with the release of the new “EFAX” models. (note: Not all EFAX drive sizes are SMR; as noted in the slide attachment in the previous post). I am not 100% certain of this date.
In April of 2020, this got more widespread attention, resulting in the slide you put out and a few other news releases from WD.
I can’t really tell what drive is in my MyCloud, Gen1, but it’s old (as all of these devices are).
I have two EX2 ultras in my collection; one a few years old (pre 2019) and another more recent acquisition. . . from the model numbers; it looks like the drives in them are all CMRs.
