WD Live vs Roku 3

I’ve got some high bitrate 1080p drone video that I shot and edited in Windows Movie Maker.  Admittedly it’s probably not encoded as tightly as possible.  It won’t play wirelessly on my WD.  I went out and got a new router (Asus 1750 802.11ac) and a Roku 3.  

I didn’t bother with the router at first.  I just hooked up the Roku 3 - and wow… it played the file flawlessly.  Same network.  Same old router.  No issues.  The Roku can easily do what my WD Live can’t.  How irritating!

Sadly I discovered I hate the Roku.  You can’t copy a file to it’s external USB devices.  It can’t play many many formats including AVI.  Basically it’s a terrible device for local media playback.  Probably great for streaming internet stuff but who needs 5 internet streaming services and 4 Netflix players?  So the Roku went back in the box.

I thought maybe the new router would help my poor old WD.  Nope.  The file still stutters.  Although Now I get 5 bars all around the house so that’s nice.

So while I hate the Roku it can stream some really high bitrate files that kill the WD on the exact same wireless network side by side - same location, same TV, same everything.  What gives?   I know the WD Live TV Plus is a bit long in the tooth but is it an old processor in the WD?  Is it not enough ram?  Tiny buffer?  Some kind of firmware issue?

And if I was going to upgrade my WD - clearly the Roku isn’t the way to go.  What would you suggest in it’s place?

Many thanks.

I’m guessing its the processor, and I’m guessing you might be out of luck with that file, and those like it, if you want to stay with WD since I don’t believe the newer models have signifcantly better CPUs.  Which is another thing that really disappoints me about the direction the maker of my favorite media player has taken with development of new products.  

I had the point driven home yesterday when I discovered my Hub wouldn’t play a 1620x1080 file with a 60 fps and I sadly realized, that the new WD players, despite being _years _further in development, probably wouldn’t either.  

sigh.  

But hey, even if we don’t have a more powerful CPU in the newer model, at least I don’t have the stress of figuring out what I’m going to watch on Netflix, so there’s that as a trade off…

sigh 2.  

(BTW, I’ll very happily be corrected if the WD TV Media Palyer does actually have an improved cpu that can play a 1620x1080 file at 60fps)

I doubt the new WD Media streamer or whatever it’s called is what I’m looking for.  I hear it only works with Windows Media Player?  Yeesh.  If I wanted to set up a media player I’d probably waste a week and get Plex working with the Roku.  

I guess I will have to somehow run an ethernet cable - very hard through cement walls, floors and ceilings.  Or maybe some kind of high speed media bridge.  But those don’t have very good reviews.

What ever happened to the simple idea of playing your video files wirelessly on your TV?  Is that too much to ask?

rachel.ray wrote:

(BTW, I’ll very happily be corrected if the WD TV Media Palyer does actually have an improved cpu that can play a 1620x1080 file at 60fps)

The WDTV supports up to 1920x1080… so in theory, it sould have no problems playing a video file with a smaller resolution eg. 1620x1080

So, to test the theory i downloaded a 4K video demo and converted it to 1620x1080 and changed the frame-rate to 60fps  *

Result:  You’re Wrong  :wink:    it plays just fine  (there must be something wrong with your video file … post a Mediainfo output)

Plays fine on the old WDTV Live Hub and the new WDTV Media Player (Personal Edition)

Here’s the sample (70mb) : http://www.mediafire.com/download/61qid411hp22dwm/1620x1080X60fps.mkv

Here’s the Mediainfo Output:

General
Unique ID : 36361665436284302400285547351849934909 (0x1B5B0084FB89E74F748E7423E291A03D)
Complete name : \WDTVLIVEHUB\WDTVLiveHub\1620x1080X60fps.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 69.9 MiB
Duration : 1mn 7s
Overall bit rate : 8 741 Kbps
Writing application : Lavf54.63.104
Writing library : Lavf54.63.104

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1mn 7s
Width : 1 620 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 3:2
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 60.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Writing library : x264 core 123 r2189 35cf912
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : A_AAC
Duration : 1mn 7s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Default : Yes
Forced : No

*   Something funny though … can’t find p60 mentioned for 1080p ?  (might try another test @ full HD 1920x1080)

  • MPEG2 MP@HL up to 1920x1080p24, 1920x1080i30 or 1280x720p60 resolution.
  • MPEG4.2 ASP@L5 up to 1280x720p30 resolution and no support for global motion compensation.
  • WMV9/VC-1 MP@HL up to 1280x720p60 or 1920x1080p24 resolution. VC-1 AP@L3 up to 1920x1080i30, 1920x1080p24 or 1280x720p60 resolution.
  • H.264 BP@L3 up to 720x480p30 or 720x576p25 resolution.
  • H.264 MP@L4.1 and HP@4.1 up to 1920x1080p24, 1920x1080i30, or 1280x720p60 resolution.
  • An audio receiver is required for multi-channel surround sound digital output.
  • Compressed RGB JPEG formats only and progressive JPEG up to 2048x2048.
  • Single layer TIFF files only.
  • Uncompressed BMP only.
  • For details, please refer to the user manual.

rbhamilton wrote:

I hear it only works with Windows Media Player?  Yeesh.

Hear where? That’s BS and is nowhere said on the player’s specs page.

JoeySmyth wrote:

The WDTV supports up to 1920x1080… so in theory, it sould have no problems playing a video file with a smaller resolution eg. 1620x1080

 

So, to test the theory i downloaded a 4K video demo and converted it to 1620x1080 and changed the frame-rate to 60fps  *

 

Result:  You’re Wrong  :wink:    it plays just fine  (there must be something wrong with your video file … post a Mediainfo output)

 

 

 When the file didn’t play I researched a bit and found this page:

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2698/~/list-of-compatible-media-file-types-for-all-wd-tv-and-wd-elements-play-products

That lists the supported resolution of the Hub as " up to 1920x1080p 24fps, 1920x1080i 30fps,  1280x720p 60fps resolution."

I’m suspecting that that is why my 60fps 1620x1080 file didn’t play.  

You might have a special Hub that plays files beyond what the WD Knowledgebase page says Hubs will play…

rachel.ray wrote:

 

That lists the supported resolution of the Hub as " up to 1920x1080p 24fps, 1920x1080i 30fps,  1280x720p 60fps resolution."

 

I’m suspecting that that is why my 60fps 1620x1080 file didn’t play.  

 

I don’t think you understand what " up to" means :confounded:

" up to" 1920 x1080  ie. where 1920 x1080 is the maximum allowed resolution.

1620 x 1080 is Less than 1920 x 1080 … grab a calculator if you don’t believe me

Another example:  Compressed RGB JPEG formats only and progressive JPEG up to 2048x2048

" up to" 2048 x2048 where 2048 x 2048 is the maximum allowed resolution.

So, if your JPEGs are Less eg. 1024 x 576, 2000 x 1000, 1920 x 800 they are allowed and will display

The sample file i provided for download works on both devices… you haven’t even said if you’ve tried it ?

There is nothing special about my Live Hub, 3-4 Years Old Running Firmware 2.07.17 … also nothing special about the WDTV Media Player (Personal Edition) which is about 1 Month Old … Running Latest Firmware 1.01.30

Yes, i tested it on 2 Devices … i will dig out my Gen1 and Gen2 Live later, and test, to bring it to 4 Tested Devices

The reason why your file won’t play can caused by other factors (Bit Depth, Encoding Profile,Codec etc)  … but since you haven’t posted any MediaInfo ouput log file … we’ll never know.

I’m don’t think that you noticed that they list increasing framerates on decreasing resolutions?

Yes i did … which i why i previously posted

*   Something funny though … can’t find p60 mentioned for 1080p ?  (might try another test @ full HD 1920x1080)

  • MPEG2 MP@HL up to 1920x1080p24, 1920x1080i30 or 1280x720p60 resolution.
  • MPEG4.2 ASP@L5 up to 1280x720p30 resolution and no support for global motion compensation.
  • WMV9/VC-1 MP@HL up to 1280x720p60 or 1920x1080p24 resolution. VC-1 AP@L3 up to 1920x1080i30, 1920x1080p24 or 1280x720p60 resolution.
  • H.264 BP@L3 up to 720x480p30 or 720x576p25 resolution.
  • H.264 MP@L4.1 and HP@4.1 up to 1920x1080p24, 1920x1080i30, or 1280x720p60 resolution.
  • An audio receiver is required for multi-channel surround sound digital output.
  • Compressed RGB JPEG formats only and progressive JPEG up to 2048x2048.
  • Single layer TIFF files only.
  • Uncompressed BMP only.
  • For details, please refer to the user manual.

It seems as if you havent read anything i posted … oh well, both these files do work on the Live Hub & WDTV Media Player

1620 x 1080 @ 60fps    http://www.mediafire.com/download/61qid411hp22dwm/1620x1080X60fps.mkv

1920 x 1080 @ 60fps    http://www.mediafire.com/download/4843rfhgw1b4l4q/1920x1080%4060fps.mkv

your file does not work for another unknown reason … which you don’t want to provide any info to solve the problem.

I guess some people find it easier to do nothing and complain i guess ?  :confounded:

Good Luck

im willing to bet there is more to it than just frame rate and resolution. bitrate will play a major part on whether the wdtv can play it or not. high bitrate 1080p60 is very taxing. also, joey, how did you ‘change’ the fps to 60? id suggest reencoding a 1080i30 bluray using bob deinterlacing to 1080p60 at crf16 and see if it plays.

as for the wdtv technical specs, they seem to follow the bluray spec in terms of resolution and framerate. 1080p24, 1080i25, 1080i30, 720p24, 720p50 and 720p60 are all bluray compliant. 1080p60 is not.

@iSeries

Avidemux 2.6 > “Filters”

fps.jpg

Yeah i think the only way to test it properly is to bob deinterlace a 1080i30 bluray to 1080p60 at crf16-18 or find a native high bitrate 1080p60 sample. i think the bitrate of the op’s file was just too much for the wdtv.

Ok, so the file I had difficulty with was one of a series of files, of which I’ve manged to re-encode one with Handbrake to its original dimensions of 1920x1080 at 60 FPS, which plays on my Hub.  So I hereby humbly withdraw my complaint that the Hub can’t play 1XX0x1080 files at 60 FPS, the aformentioned Knowledgebase file-spec ceiling notwithstanding,  

Where the incompatibility with my original file seems to lie is that it was encoded with an H.264 Level of 5.0, which the Hub doesn’t seem to like at all.  Re-encoding the file at its original resolution and FPS in Handbrake with a constant quality RF value of of 22 and an h.264 profile of High and a Level 3.0 played very nicely.  

I’'m testing RF 19 and Auto for Level right now.  I really don’t expect the RF 19 to make any difference in compatibility at all, and anticipate that the Auto Level will work without problem, but the encode is set to take over three more hours and I wanted to post this before bed.