HD files are buffering - what can I do?

Huggy · December 10, 2012, 5:42pm

Hi all,

Slowly getting the hang of the WDTV LIve SMP, which has encouraged me to rip my entire DVD collection.

I have a wired connection (sort of - I use a mains connector to the lounge - a TP Link model rated at 200mbps).

DVDs (ripped by DVDFab at DVD9 - c750Mb each) are fine, but the BluRay rips (ripped at BD25 - 1080/i - and ending up something like 22Gb AVCHD files each) buffer after a couple of minutes - it’s unwatchable.

The little lights on the TP Link start to go orange which tells me it is struggling to keep up.

So if this is a limitation of my network, I assume, I have to reduce the quality of the Blu Ray rips. What do people suggest which is a good trade off of quality and speed. I am very reluctant to reduce quality too much, because what would be the point of HD!!).

Any help would be most welcome.

Thanks

Huggy

demo23019 · December 10, 2012, 6:39pm

wireless not fast enough to keep up with 1080 streaming

Id run wire with NFS not SMB instead of lowering quality of your movies

Tinwarble · December 10, 2012, 7:34pm

Well, first I would encode to mkv using Handbrake. If you set HB correctly you’ll end up with a much smaller file and keep pretty much the same quality.

Also, the SMP will stream 1080p mkv’s over wireless (although I recommend wired for 1080p). But it is dependent on your environment and your equipment. You need at least a N router capable of high wifi speeds, then you need to set it to N only mode. Then it depends on your environment, if you have a lot of interference then you are going to have problems.

I’ve streamed Handbrake encoded 1080p mkv’s without any issues over wireless.

KAD79 · December 10, 2012, 7:41pm

set up NFS is your best option in my opinion

as for MKV, smaller files will play better, but MKV’s in general require a bit more resource to playback

or at least that’s how it was on the live and live plus

Huggy · December 11, 2012, 4:22am

Not sure if I am reading you guys right or you are reading me wrong here :). but it isn’t a wireless set up. I am connected from the router using one of these . maybe a faster version would work (say the 500mbs model. Meantime, I will research your other suggestions.

Ta

KAD79 · December 11, 2012, 6:43am

yep, we understand that

in theory even a 100Mbps is enough

what we’re saying is that samba (aka windows shares, aka cifs)

has horible thoughput, regardless of how it’s connected

NFS has better thoughput, which may be enough that you don’t have to buy the 500 Mbps model

particularly since buying a 500Mbps model does not guarantee it will improve anything

edit: coincidently, here’s how I’m connected

http://homesupport.cisco.com/en-us/support/powerline/PLS300

it has a max 200 Mbps

Tinwarble · December 11, 2012, 7:07am

Hate to disagree, but samba works fine.

Here’s how I’m connected. SMP’s internal WiFi &

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=950

Streams this without issue (although this is pushing it).

General
ID                                       : 0 (0x0)
Complete name                            : M:\Blu Ray\MainMovie\AMAZING_SPIDERMAN\BDMV\STREAM\00001.m2ts
Format                                   : BDAV
Format/Info                              : Blu-ray Video
File size                                : 27.5 GiB
Duration                                 : 2h 16mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 28.9 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate                 : 48.0 Mbps

Video
ID                                       : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : 27
Duration                                 : 2h 16mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 25.8 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.520
Stream size                              : 24.6 GiB (89%)

Audio #1
ID                                       : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : DTS
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Mode                                     : 16
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : 130
Duration                                 : 2h 16mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 509 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 1.44 GiB (5%)

Audio #2
ID                                       : 4353 (0x1101)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Format profile                           : Dolby Digital
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 2h 16mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 187 MiB (1%)

Audio #3
ID                                       : 4354 (0x1102)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Format profile                           : Dolby Digital
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 2h 16mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 187 MiB (1%)

Text #1
ID                                       : 4608 (0x1200)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #2
ID                                       : 4609 (0x1201)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #3
ID                                       : 4610 (0x1202)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144
Delay relative to video                  : 2s 43ms

Handbrake encoded mkv’s however are no problem to stream.

KAD79 · December 11, 2012, 7:31am

wifi is very dependant on specific environment

equipment used, what type of building materials, how far from the router, etc , etc …

combined with the fact that most people don’t know how to properly set up a network

there’s extensive testing done on the WDLXTV project

NFS has better thoughput by a long shot

http://wiki.wdlxtv.com/Wifi_Performance

and buying better equipment is no guarantee that samba will work better (it certainly can’t hurt it)

but again, does not mean it will actual fix his studdering issues

Tinwarble · December 11, 2012, 8:48am

Yes, that’s what I said in my first reply (about environmental concerns).

And I didn’t mean to imply that there was a guarantee, only that it’s possible and no matter whether you use NFS or SMB your equipment still needs to be up to snuff. As for the SMP vs. NFS argument, I’ve seen compelling arguments on both side and I don’t claim to be an expert on either, but from my perspective it seems that how well they work is in how they are implemented. Also, both have there good and bad points.

But I can say this pair this: http://www.wdc.com/en/products/productions?id=960 with the router I posted above and you shouldn’t have any troubles

Huggy · December 11, 2012, 10:11am

hmm. My choices (which could be in combination) seem to be

handbrake my msts files to mkv. Takes a long time to encode I understand, and frankly, I find the 30 odd mins just to rip a blu ray frustrating as it is (that’s with a decent quad core CPU). That said, compression seems to be about 50%, which might prove critical.
implement an NFS server, though I am seeing mixed opinions like this guy who seems to have the same problem as me and is using a 500mbs mains connection http://community.wdc.com/t5/WD-TV-Live-Streaming-Discussions/Setting-up-NFS/m-p/438658/highlight/true#M10614
try a 500mbs upgrade, but I am not too hopeful
upgrade my router. I am working away from home now, so I can’t check it’s spec.

I guess that is the order in which I will take this.

Huggy · December 11, 2012, 10:13am

oh and can I confirm that just using handbake would not work as it doesn’t remove copy protection like DVDFab? So it’s a 2 stage process

KAD79 · December 11, 2012, 7:16pm

I recommend try NFS first

Hanewin, is probably the best windows based NFS server, it has a trial period

FreeNFS is also available and works pretty well, just doesn’t have tons of options

Tinwarble · December 11, 2012, 8:26pm

Huggy wrote:

oh and can I confirm that just using handbake would not work as it doesn’t remove copy protection like DVDFab? So it’s a 2 stage process

Passkey + Handbrake, one step process. (Nothing worth doing is ever quick )

Also, if your using W7 Ultimate or Enterprise you don’t need to install anything for NFS. See this here:

http://sagehacks.wordpress.com/2009/01/21/howto-mount-nfs-shares-under-windows-7/

If using anything below Ultimate you can’t use this method.

richUK · December 11, 2012, 8:32pm

Out of interest where are your videos stored on your network?

KAD79 · December 11, 2012, 8:56pm

Win7 ultimate and probably enterprise as well

only allows mounting of NFS, it can not share files via NFS

Tinwarble · December 11, 2012, 9:01pm

Yeah, sorry, forgot that they only included the Client in Windows 7, and not the server.

KAD79 · December 12, 2012, 5:11am

I had wanted to do this for a while, and this thread got me to finally do it

I ported the bandwidth_test script from WDLXTV to run on the SMP

biggest pain was the fact that while awk, ships as part of the firmware, WD compiled it with errors

which makes their version of awk completely unusable, I’ll probably have to eventually compile awk myself

since there will be other things, which I’ll want to use it for

awk was used in the original script to do floating point calculations, bash can not do floating point calculations

anyways

test bed

Ubuntu Server 12:10

Switch ASUS GX-D1081

Router Linksys E3000 (running DD-WRT) actually the switch will by pass the router completely

powerline adaptor Linksys PL300

edit: file used for test is on an external drive connected to PC

The results NFS

~ # uname -a
Linux WDTVLive 2.6.22.19-49-4 #11 PREEMPT Wed Oct 24 11:51:56 CST 2012 mips unknown
~ #
~ # /usrdata/.wd_tv/theme/Beta/bandwidth_test “/tmp/media/nfs/192.168.1.123/Action2/Fire With Fire.avi”
Pass #1:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 1:33 min, 8 MB/sec (67 Mb/sec)
Pass #2:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 1:36 min, 8 MB/sec (65 Mb/sec)
Pass #3:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 1:37 min, 8 MB/sec (64 Mb/sec)
Pass #4:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 1:37 min, 8 MB/sec (64 Mb/sec)
Pass #5:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 1:37 min, 8 MB/sec (64 Mb/sec)
Pass #6:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 1:37 min, 8 MB/sec (64 Mb/sec)
Pass #7:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 1:38 min, 8 MB/sec (64 Mb/sec)
Pass #8:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 1:40 min, 7 MB/sec (63 Mb/sec)
Pass #9:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 1:37 min, 8 MB/sec (64 Mb/sec)
Pass #10:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 1:37 min, 8 MB/sec (64 Mb/sec)

Average Transfer speed after 10 passes is: 64 Mb/sec

and the same File via Samba

~ # /usrdata/.wd_tv/theme/Beta/bandwidth_test “/tmp/media/samba/DYGERTSERVER/Extra/Action2/Fire With Fire.avi”
Pass #1:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 13:23 min, 0 MB/sec (7 Mb/sec)
Pass #2:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 13:26 min, 0 MB/sec (7 Mb/sec)
Pass #3:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 13:22 min, 0 MB/sec (7 Mb/sec)
Pass #4:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 13:16 min, 0 MB/sec (7 Mb/sec)
Pass #5:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 13:9 min, 0 MB/sec (7 Mb/sec)
Pass #6:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 13:25 min, 0 MB/sec (7 Mb/sec)
Pass #7:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 13:23 min, 0 MB/sec (7 Mb/sec)
Pass #8:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 13:26 min, 0 MB/sec (7 Mb/sec)
Pass #9:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 13:27 min, 0 MB/sec (7 Mb/sec)
Pass #10:Timing ‘Fire With Fire.avi’(769085 KB)… Time: 13:23 min, 0 MB/sec (7 Mb/sec)

Average Transfer speed after 10 passes is: 7 Mb/sec

The Samba results, are absolutely horrible and yes the numbers are correct 7 Mb/sec

Huggy · December 12, 2012, 9:21am

richUK wrote:
Out of interest where are your videos stored on your network?

On my study PC hard drive, they are streamed to my wdtv box in the sitting room next door via the router and the mains network connection.

Huggy · December 12, 2012, 9:22am

Tinwarble wrote:

Huggy wrote:

oh and can I confirm that just using handbake would not work as it doesn’t remove copy protection like DVDFab? So it’s a 2 stage process