Wireless-N with MIMO -- 5GHz?

My Passort Wireless is advertised as having ‘Wireless-N with MIMO’.

I thought that this meant 802.11n (IEEE 802.11n-2009) - which I as far as I can see should be able to use both the 2.4GHz and 5.0GHz channels. The ‘MIMO’ meaning it could use multiple channels at once.

I’ve tried various configurations and I my MPW is only able to see networks in the 2.4GHz band.

Is there a way to change the settings to 5.0GHz?

Also, in order to use the ‘MIMO’ it is supposed to be able to use multiple channels. As far as I can tell it’s only using one.

Does anybody know how many aerials the MPW has? The number of aerials seems to determine the number of channels it can use with MIMO.

I can’t seem to find anything about this in the manuals.

No, the MPW is 2.4GHz only.

The 802.11n standard CAN be used in either 2.4 or 5Ghz modes, but that doesn’t mean that if the standard is used that it WILL include both.

And being MIMO also doesn’t mean the it will include both bandwidths.

OK, that’s a pity - but it should, with MIMO, still be able to use multiple 2.4GHz channels.

My router provides channels 1-13 at 2.4GHz.

How do you get it to use multiple channels?

I should say that the reason that I’m concerned isn’t just theoretical.

I’m finding that the drive doesn’t work properly with streaming - the picture stops and starts. 

This suggests that the bandwidth isn’t enough for streaming video. It should be if it’s using multiple 802.11n channels - even at 2.4GHz.

So any suggestions of how to speed up streaming generally, as well as how to increase the bandwidth by having it use more channels would be gratefully received.

fustbariclation wrote:

OK, that’s a pity - but it should, with MIMO, still be able to use multiple 2.4GHz channels.

MIMO has nothing to do with using multiple channels.

MIMO is the use of separate ANTENNAS on the SAME channel to do spatial multiplexing.

There’s no magic involved when using multiple channels – that’s just using multiple radios simlateneously (on the SAME antennas, not separate.)

Incidentally, I’ve had no trouble streaming multiple (2 or 3) HD streams simultaneously to different devices…  and you in no way need multiple channels (or even “wide” channels") to do that.  2.4GHz 802.11n channels support up to 150megabits per second of throughput.   Un-modified bluray rips require no more than 50 megabits per second.

Thank you, Tony, that’s useful information. So, having two aerials, the box should be quite good at spatial multiplexing!

I’m puzzled now, though, that my streaming should be so poor. Just the one stream, and not HD. An ordinary, standard definition film on iTunes was very jerky.

I’d have though that this should be curable by using a larger cache - but there’s no obvious way to increase the cache.

I’ll set up a test to get an idea of the data rate that I’m getting.

ChcecChfustbariclation wrote:

I’m puzzled now, though, that my streaming should be so poor. Just the one stream, and not HD. An ordinary, standard definition film on iTunes was very jerky.

 

I’ll set up a test to get an idea of the data rate that I’m getting.

 

 Check to see if oyur receiving device/software (iTunes?) is doing any transcoding. That is a likely problem area.

Try testing using a source file that is in a format that is definitely supported by the receiving device/software.

Standard definition files often get upscaled to the screen definition of the device, which can strain its playback abilities.

:Leaving behind the MIMO/antenna mumbo-jumbo for a moment, let’s get to the guy’s salient question:

“So any suggestions of how to speed up streaming generally, as well as how to increase the bandwidth by having it use more channels would be gratefully received.”

YES!

I can see a marked improvement in video streaming when the MPW is on my network at 2.4G, and I access it on the network from my iPhone/iPad using 5G to access the media on the MPW.  A simple test is to view the Sample Videos that came installed on the MPW.  While the MPW is on the network, view the videos at 2.4G (from your mobile device connected at 2.4G) – they are high bit rate videos and they can stall and stutter.  Now, switch the mobile device to 5G connection and watch the videos again from the MPW…  There is basically no stalling and stuttering. To maximize this, have your MPW right near your router – on same table.  You also have extended range by accessing the MPW via the router instead of its own wireless signal.

So, at home my MPW is on my network, next to my router, and plugged into its P/S so it stays fully charged.  It is on 24/7, but because it has a sleep mode after 5 mins of inactivity it sleeps and there is no wear and tear on the HD inside.

Bottom line is I have NO issues with stalling and stuttering on my iOS devices, but my Kindle Fire HD has a slower processor and it can stutter on a blu-ray derived mp4 the iOS devices have no problem with.

I have no transcoding going on, because it just slows down things and my videos from DVDs and BD are all mp4 for the phones and tablets.

Thank you - that makes sense.

Unfortunately, that’s what I’ve been doing.

MPW — 2.4GHz  802.11n—> Apple Time Capsule (router) —> 5.0GHz 802.11ac  —> Macbook Pro

With the MPW plugged into the mains and a few cm from the Apple Time Capsule.

So it should be nice and fast.

I take the point about the screen definition - but… When I play a film from my Macbook Pro onto my iMac through iTunes sharing, it works find – that’s going from standard definition on the Macbook to 2560x1440 27-inch on the iMac. The iMac also runs through 802.11n – not 802.11ac, it’s not such a new iMac.

Something else must be slowing it down. 

Well, I don’t quite see what Time Machine has to fo with this (are you using the MPW as aTime Machine drive?)

A word about the cache in the My Cloud app.  I have set mine to be 8GB on a 16GB phone and 10 GB on a 64GB iPad which seems to help.  Also, do you have another app you can play videos with from the MPW?  e.g. FileBrowser.

Other than what all I wrote already, I am out of ideas for you, so good luck getting to the bottom of all this.

mike27oct wrote:

Well, I don’t quite see what Time Machine has to fo with this (are you using the MPW as aTime Machine drive?)

 

He said he was using an Apple Time Capsule as a router. That functionality has nothing to do with the use of Time Machine.

Also, I know you love your setup with the MPW on your network, available like any other network resource, but the only reason you get better speed that way is because you have the MPW right up next to your wireless router. You are actually adding in another wireless step in the network from the MPW to the target device that is playing video, which will be adding some delay and hence speed loss.

Just having a direct connection to a powered MPW close by would give at least as good speed results, and probably better, assuming the connected device has the capabilities to achieve a higher speed. But yes, the convenience of having the MPW on your home network makes sense, and you would get better range and speed of connection while roaming around the house away from the MPW.

However, all that is irrelevant if fustbariclation is connecting to the MPW at sufficient speed to play the media he is playing. He doesn’t need the fatest possible speed, just sufficient speed. Some speed tests for various connections will determine if the connection is the bottleneck, or something else is going on.

My money would be on something else. Playing media isn’t as straight forward as many people think. Particularly when we start to use ususual formats, different players, and so on. Play an MP3 on a tiny iPod? Easy. Play a eight track FLAC (or ALAC in the case of Apple products) on the same device, not so easy.

If you use the MPW just as a hard drive and effectively play media from it as you would from a local hard drive, you aren’t actually streaming the media.

If you use the MPW Media Server capabilities and actually stream media to another device, there is the potential for transcoding on the MPW, although I don’t know if it is capable, but regardless, the MPW is then involved in the control of media delivery to the rendering device.

This is where you need to look fustbariclation;

First, speed check your connection. Just copy large files from the MPW to yor device and note the stable speed achieved, not the burst speed which would involve the cache.

If the speed is sufficient, and you will need to know the bitrate of your media (the free MediaInfo can tell you that) plus do a little research to learn what it means, then look at the delivery chain and renderer being used.

A larger cache could help, if you can afford the space on your device, but it would only help smooth delivery of data if your network speed fluctuated, or smooth the load of rendering the media if the cache was post transcoding. Maybe a different App would do more to solve the problem.

As an example of the issues, I can play 1080p30fps video easily on my HTPC and Samsung TV at 60Hz, but if I try to play Standard Definition interleaved TV recorded over the air, my HTPC can have some trouble, not because it needs to be upscaled to 1080p60fps, but because the deinterleaving is a demanding process.

The same issues can arise if I try to play video that was originally a 24fps theatrical movie, unless I tell the HTPC to treat it as a Film, rather than Video.

fustbariclation wrote:

 

When I play a film from my Macbook Pro onto my iMac through iTunes sharing, it works find – that’s going from standard definition on the Macbook to 2560x1440 27-inch on the iMac.

 

Something else must be slowing it down. 

  

When you use that arrangement the iMac is doing the rendering and any transcoding required, unless the Macbook Pro is acting as a Media Server rather than just a source of media files. Unless that is the device you are using with the MPW media, I’m sure the iMac is a more capable renderer. I’m no expert on iTunes, but if you are running iTune on the Macbook Pro and the iMac, and sharing media between them, then that is a Media Server arrangement, rather than just media file sharing. Either computer in that case could do any transcoding required, though the iMac would be doing the rendering.

There is probably no easy answer to your media playing problem, or the fix may be easy, but not easy to find. You may need to ask on some specialist forums, such as the AVS Forums, http://www.avsforum.com/forum/index.php

Thank you for your help.

The Time Capsule is simply my router, in this instance.

I’ll chat to the iTunes group and see if they have any suggestions.

@Roderick

  He said he was using an Apple Time Capsule as a router. That functionality has nothing to do with the use of Time Machine.

   Also, I know you love your setup with the MPW on your network, available like any other network resource, but the only reason you get better speed that way is because you have the MPW right up next to your wireless router. You are actually adding in another wireless step in the network from the MPW to the target device that is playing video, which will be adding some delay and hence speed loss.


EXCUSE ME for not kowing all the Apple lingo and this distinction, but other than an iPhone or an iPad , I “don’t do Apple”, nor do I keep up with all their cutesie names for their products!  So, take me out behind the router and flog me with a limp ethernet cable!  :laughing:

You’re right, I do like my MPW sitting on my network and next to my router, but my MPW likes me even more because I can use it anytime.  Otherwise, it would mostly sit around collecting dust, because when I take a wireless drive with me I tote a much smaller (500GB) Seagate drive that is also older/cheaper (AND its app is MUCH better than My Cloud) etc. rather than a 2TB monsterous MPW with me.  And yea, if I want it on the network 24/7, then the best place for it is right next to a router where it can beam its signal.  Duh!

Yes, I can get better connections by going direct, and I do, most all of the time.  I have more gadgets around me that stream than you can shake a stick at, and if all (incl PCs)  of the gadgets are turned off, I can still use the two wireless drives on the network to stream from.  Yea, I have added another layer this way w/MPW on router, but so what, it does not negatively affect my streaming performance one bit.

One thing I will agree about is you indicated he has some issues with his wireless signal to be causing his poor performance, and I haven’t any idea what it could be, but he needs to explore and find the root cause using some of your suggestions.