H.264 HD out of sync


#1

I’ve been trying to watch some of the vidcasts from Revision 3. The WMV and lower res H.264 vids all work fine, but the ones they have that are HD and HD-30fps play with the video running way ahead of the audio. The audio plays normally, the video seems to be at almost double speed.

I have the latest firmware on the WD TV Live. The videos have been downloaded and are playing from a network share that works fine on other videos. Basically, I’ve tried to eliminate all extraneous issues, and the sync problem still exists. These videos all play fine on my PC. This leads me to believe it’s a problem with the decoding on the WD TV Live. Here is a sample video that should demonstrate the problem. 


#2

That is a known isssue, there’s a problem with audio/video sync in .mp4 videos, just remux it for now in a mkv file and it will play fine. Hopefully it will be fixed in a future firmware


#3

Actually, the problem is not mp4 specific. I have remuxed one of the revision 3 videos playing too fast to mkv and the problem still exists with the mkv. And the problem still exists with firmware 1.02.21.


#4

Hello to all, brand new user here. Got my unit today. I’m already mad as hell.

I have this issue also. Here are my detail. I have many H.264 files that were converted for playback on my Apple TV. I used the Elgato H.264 Turbo HD hardware dongle convertor. The files play on ATV and computer just fine.

I had two different configurations, such that some files I converted long ago with the Elgato convertor are playing fine on the WDLIVE. However recently converted files are having the racing video problem as described here.

Now I can dig through the differences between the files, if that will help tech support determine the problem. My WDLIVE plays other videos fine, DVD Video_TS, You Tube, etc. But the majority of my library is hundreds of .m4v files. Again, my oldest conversions play OK, the later ones do not.

I have two possible reasons. First is that of course Elgato has updated its software from time to time and therefore the later files have been converted with newer software. Second, I did change my conversion profile settings for my Apple TV conversions many months ago. So I need to determine which files play/don’t play and see it this corresponds with the profile change. I made some resolution and frame rate changes. As the ATV was having problems playing HD video with 30 FPS. I had to change my conversion to downscale the 720P to 540P and keep the frame rate at 30 FPS. But the issues presented here are all with converted DVDs. The files are easy 480P DVD files. 

If anyone at WD tech support wants to know the exact difference between the file conversions made, that seem to trigger the bug, I’d be happy to post my results.

However, if my issue falls on deaf ears, I’ll just return the product and tell my friends who also have these same files to stay away. I hope to be able to resolve this ASAP.


#5

Welcome to the forums.

You may want to return the unit.  It’s unlikely WD tech will look at this specific an issue.

If you want to try something, you might take one of the problematic files and run it through mkvmerge to create an MKV file (it will only remux so it should only take a minute or so).  See if the resultant file then plays properly.  But at that point it will be up to you whether you want to go through the effort of conversion (the Live plays MKV files a lot better than any other kind, just like AppleTV plays MP4 files better – well, truth in fact ATV ONLY plays MP4 files, which is why I dumped it).


#6

Thanks Mike for your input.

I’ll probably experiment and try to fine the correct H.264 settings that play well on the WDLIVE unit.  I’d like to use it instead of the ATV, but I didn’t and can’t reconvert all my files. And i like the speed of the Elgato H.264 Turbo device, so I’m sure I can find the right combination.

That said, what specific process are you referring to that will re-convert the .m4v ATV files to MKV files without loosing any quality. I’m thinking this is a frame rate issue or  some container paramters issue. If just placing the file into a MKV container solves it, and I can do without to much effort, assuming I’m not recompressing already compressed video.


#7

mkvmerge is a freeware PC program (but don’t use the latest version or the audio won’t play on the Live unless you turn off header compression).

Here’s where to get the version you want:

http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/mkvtoolnix-unicode-4.0.0-setup.exe

It only remuxes but I’ll bet you a dollar it solves your problem (and you won’t lose any quality).   If for some reason you try it and it *doesn’t* work at first, go to the audio track specific options and checkmark the “AAC” box there and try again.


#8

Didn’t fix it.

I am an OS-X user, but did get the command line version of the tools. Ran one of the defective files through mkvmerge and got the same rapid video problem. Audio is fine, but the video is playing too fast.

This ■■■■■!

Of course Revision 3 videos that play from MediaFly ALSO have the problem… So a fix in the player would be the best solution. 

Does anyone have the specific mkvmerge options that might fix the “too fast video” issue?

I just found a more recent version of mkvmerge, I had a 2.3 version, so I’ll try again with the new version and report back.

UPDATE: Used the most recent 4.2.0 for Mac, same not working issue. I even forced NONE compression of all tracks. Still ■■■■■.


#9

I re-made an H.264 file, after removing the OLD 2.3 version of mkvmerge, as I think the newly loaded GUI 4.2.0 would still call the old version command line program. So now I’m sure that the mkvmerge 4.2 is called to do the conversion.

So now the video just doesn’t play at all! At least the 2.3 version of mkvmerge created a working file, although no fixed. In fact this new version sort of screws up the WDTV so that it won’t play any other video until I REBOOT it. Then I can play other videos, but once I try to play the MKV file that was converted from the “too fast video” H.264, the unit won’t play any other videos.

Why does this have to be so hard? What videos types is it supposed to play? What is the RECOMMENDED perfect file format for the WDTV Live Plus? This really ■■■■■!

Is anyone else using the WDTV Live Plus to play H.264 video? I will re-process a source video from scratch, using the Elgato H.264 conversion device and set the GOP to IP as suggested and be sure it at least plays any NEW files I produce.

But if there is a way to fix the hundreds of files I already have, that would be cool! BTW, VLC, ATV, QT all play them fine.


#10

I ran mkvmerge with NO COMPRESSION on the video and the audio tracks and now at least it doesn’t CRASH the player, but it still is TOO FAST VIDEO.

Before we try to make mkvmerge fix something, does anyone know what it is we are trying to fix? Frame Rate, Bit Rate, header info, etc etc.


#11

We don’t know because we don’t know much about your files.

Post the MediaInfo on one of them for us to see.


#12

I’d be happy to do that, but pick any Revision 3 video and get the same results. 

I have created NEW files from Turbo H.264 HD by setting the GOP structure to IP. This was recommended by the elgato forums. So any NEW files, I can process correctly for WDTV. I’m happy about that. :slight_smile:

But since I don’t really know what is going on with the GOP structure in previously formatted/encoded files, and I expect that Revision 3 is using the same parameters as I am getting with the Apple TV preset of Elgato Turbo H.264 HD encoder, I’m looking to see if there is any chance to hack the file, via mkvmerge or something else, that will stamp the file correctly to fool WDTV into playing the files properly.

I know I can RE Encode the files, with the GOP structure set to IP, I’ve done it on a test file, an existing H.264 .m4v file and made a new .mp4 file, and it played correctly, I should post the data from each file and see what the DIFF is.  

Coming up… as soon as I figure out the program used to provide you this information… BRB


#13

Ok, here we go. First I’ll post the major video DIFF between the two files:

32,37c30,35
BAD FILE:
< Codec Settings (Summary)..........................CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
< QF (like Gordian Knot)............................0.214
< Codec Settings (CABAC)............................Yes
< Codec Settings (Reference Frames).................2
< Video Stream Length...............................4mn 5s 812ms
< Video Stream BitRate..............................3 327 Kbps
--- GOOD FILE:
> Codec Settings (Summary)..........................1 Ref Frames
> QF (like Gordian Knot)............................0.296
> Codec Settings (CABAC)............................No
> Codec Settings (Reference Frames).................1
> Video Stream Length...............................4mn 5s 779ms
> Video Stream BitRate..............................4 594 Kbps

Now the entire data for completeness:

BAD FIle:

General / Container Stream #1
        Total Video Streams for this File.................1
        Total Audio Streams for this File.................1
        Total Subtitle Streams for this File..............1
        Video Codecs Used.................................AVC
        Audio Codecs Used.................................AAC LC
        SubTitle Codecs Used..............................text
        Available Sutbitle Languages......................English
        File Format.......................................MPEG-4
        Play Time.........................................4mn 5s
        Total File Size...................................102 MiB
        Total Stream BitRate..............................3 472 Kbps
        Title (Tag).......................................NASCAR
Video Stream #1
        Codec (Human Name)................................AVC
        Codec (FourCC)....................................avc1
        Codec Profile.....................................Main@L3.1
        Frame Width.......................................960 pixels
        Frame Height......................................540 pixels
        Frame Rate........................................29.970 fps
        Total Frames......................................7367
        Display Aspect Ratio..............................16:9
        Video Standard....................................NTSC
        Scan Type.........................................Progressive
        Color Space.......................................YUV
        Codec Settings (Summary)..........................CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
        QF (like Gordian Knot)............................0.214
        Codec Settings (CABAC)............................Yes
        Codec Settings (Reference Frames).................2
        Video Stream Length...............................4mn 5s 812ms
        Video Stream BitRate..............................3 327 Kbps
        Video Stream BitRate Mode.........................VBR
        Bit Depth.........................................8 bits
        Video Stream Size.................................97.5 MiB (96%)
        Video Stream Language.............................English
        Date of Original Encoding.........................UTC 2009-10-10 06:53:17
        Color Primaries...................................BT.601-6 525, BT.1358 525, BT.1700 NTSC, SMPTE 170M
        Transfer Characteristics..........................BT.601-6 525, BT.601-6 625, BT.1358 525, BT.1358 625, BT.1700 NTSC, SMPTE 170M
        Matrix Coefficients...............................BT.601-6 525, BT.1358 525, BT.1700 NTSC, SMPTE 170M
Audio Stream #1
        Codec.............................................AAC
        Codec (FourCC)....................................40
        Audio Stream Length...............................4mn 5s 802ms
        Audio Stream BitRate..............................128 Kbps
        Audio Stream BitRate Mode.........................CBR
        Number of Audio Channels..........................2
        Audio Channel's Positions.........................Front: L R
        Sampling Rate.....................................48.0 KHz
        Audio Stream Size.................................3.80 MiB (4%)
        Audio Stream Language.............................English
        Date of Original Encoding.........................UTC 2009-10-10 06:53:17
Subtitle Stream #1
        Language..........................................English
        Format............................................Apple text
        Codec ID..........................................text

Good File

General / Container Stream #1
        Total Video Streams for this File.................1
        Total Audio Streams for this File.................1
        Video Codecs Used.................................AVC
        Audio Codecs Used.................................AAC LC
        File Format.......................................MPEG-4
        Play Time.........................................4mn 5s
        Total File Size...................................139 MiB
        Total Stream BitRate..............................4 732 Kbps
        Title (Tag).......................................NASCAR
        Encoding Library..................................Apple QuickTime
Video Stream #1
        Codec (Human Name)................................AVC
        Codec (FourCC)....................................avc1
        Codec Profile.....................................Main@L3.1
        Frame Width.......................................960 pixels
        Frame Height......................................540 pixels
        Frame Rate........................................29.970 fps
        Total Frames......................................7366
        Display Aspect Ratio..............................16:9
        Video Standard....................................NTSC
        Scan Type.........................................Progressive
        Color Space.......................................YUV
        Codec Settings (Summary)..........................1 Ref Frames
        QF (like Gordian Knot)............................0.296
        Codec Settings (CABAC)............................No
        Codec Settings (Reference Frames).................1
        Video Stream Length...............................4mn 5s 779ms
        Video Stream BitRate..............................4 594 Kbps
        Video Stream BitRate Mode.........................VBR
        Bit Depth.........................................8 bits
        Video Stream Size.................................135 MiB (97%)
        Video Stream Language.............................English
        Date of Original Encoding.........................UTC 2010-07-30 02:50:18
        Color Primaries...................................BT.601-6 525, BT.1358 525, BT.1700 NTSC, SMPTE 170M
        Transfer Characteristics..........................BT.709-5, BT.1361
        Matrix Coefficients...............................BT.601-6 525, BT.1358 525, BT.1700 NTSC, SMPTE 170M
Audio Stream #1
        Codec.............................................AAC
        Codec (FourCC)....................................40
        Audio Stream Length...............................4mn 5s 760ms
        Audio Stream BitRate..............................128 Kbps
        Audio Stream BitRate Mode.........................CBR
        Number of Audio Channels..........................2
        Audio Channel's Positions.........................Front: L R
        Sampling Rate.....................................48.0 KHz
        Audio Stream Size.................................3.75 MiB (3%)
        Audio Stream Language.............................English
        Date of Original Encoding.........................UTC 2010-07-30 02:50:18

So the question, can mkvmerge correct or change any of these parameters, without re-encoding?


#14

I’m determined to find out the answer to this! Pardon as I post my results as I go.

I made a new comparison. I processed a small VOB file from a DVD, and encoded the file with the same preset except I changed the GOP structure to IP. Hence the following DIFF file between the two files, BAD file on left, GOOD file on right:

30,31c30,31
< Codec Settings (Summary)..........................3 Ref Frames
< QF (like Gordian Knot)............................0.157
---
> Codec Settings (Summary)..........................1 Ref Frames
> QF (like Gordian Knot)............................0.232
33c33
< Codec Settings (Reference Frames).................3
---
> Codec Settings (Reference Frames).................1

The remaining DIFF was not related. So I’m thinking it’s a Reference Frames issue…duh!  3 frames BAD, 1 frame GOOD. Can something change this without re-encoding exisiting files? Can mkvmerge force the file to switch reference frames? All other paramters are the same.

I double checked and played each file, the one with 3 frames was too fast, the one with one frame was correct. Both files were .m4v files encoded with Elgato Turbo H.264 HD encoder. Played on the most recent WDTV player, received yesterday.


#15

I’ve also read somewhere that older firmware didn’t have this problem… that only after a certain firmware update did the revision 3 videos start having problems. So I’m encouraged to hope for a firmware fix that will restore proper H.264 playback of Revision 3 videos and all H.264 videos that were encoded specifically for Apple TV.  (Since I’d like to replace all Apple Tvs with WDTV!)

I want to be a fan…!


#16

Using reframes as 3 shouldn’t be an issue – it’s all I ever use with Handbrake (but higher frame rates, particularly over 6 *does* create issues, although anything over 6 is insane).  I’m also not sure where you “read…that after a certain firmware update” this problem occurred – it certainly wasn’t on *this* forum, and I would take with a large salt lick block any other info elsewhere.

Still – if that’s a possibility you can always try installing older firmware – there are Googled links out  there on both where it is and how to do it.  I’m extremely skeptical that you’ll get it working that way, but you never know.

(And you keep referring to “Version 3” as if we should know what that is – I never heard of it, and what you are using to encode is so very unmainstream that’s why I say I’m doubtful it will ever get “fixed” in the Live firmware.  But if you put a public domain file with the problem posted somewhere with a link I’ll see if I can get a WD tech to at least take a look at it, if they don’t see it here themselves).


#17

Is this the answer to your problem:

http://revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31576

WDTV Live video is 2x speed of sound

and

http://revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31691

It appears to be a revision3 problem. However it also looks like the latest  WDTV firmware (when released) may cure it.


#18

Wow, good find, Rich!  


#19

If it is not a References Frame issue, then MediaInfo is simply not showing the difference of the problem area. What more can I show?

There are several threads on the “Revision3” ( http://revision3.com) forums that state that older firmaware in the WDTV Live did NOT have the problem ( http://revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31691)  and only when updating to newer firmware, did the problem start. Maybe coincidentally with “Revision3” changing their encoder, but still, we have two moving targets trying to work together.

As for publically posted files, simply go to MediaFly and find any recent Revision 3 HD episode. One of the moderators  posted some links of some test files of the  show on the  “Revision3” forum thread that I’ve gleaned most of my info.  So they do see the problem. But they are using standard settings. It’s just finding the setting the best works on WDTV, and trying to get WD to revert to the code that played their files correctly, (and hence would probably played correctly too.)

It is a shame that Patrick Norton of Tekzilla on Revision 3, reviews the WDTV llive unit and now it can’t even play any Revision 3 content from that network. 

I’m just saying that the encoder I use, has the same issue. I’m not looking for WD to fix my unmainstream encoder, (heck I can make the required adjustments to the parameters and get great encodes from now on), I’m just looking to:

A. Be able to watch Revision 3 content

B. Fix my hundreds of files that would have played OK on earlier firmware, but now is broken.

C. Hope that WDTV doesn’t break the decoding of what settings I use today.

P.S. Someone did mention that the BETA firmware release (7/14)  that has been pulled, DID fix the problem. So I’m hopeful that a firmware release will come out soon!

Yes I can:

A. RE-ENCODE all my files and suffer quality loss or,

B. FInd a way to Re-Mux files to correct a parameter issue or,

C. Wait for WD to release next firmware or,

D. Return unit.

P.P.S. I have a brand new WDTV Live PLUS unit.


#20

I’ll have another go!!

Is this the answer to your problem:

http://revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31576

WDTV Live video is 2x speed of sound

and

http://revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31691

It appears to be a revision3 problem.

Look at the first link above where the OP goes into great detail about what might be causing your problem. He has done some work on this problem and has come to the conclusion thats it something to do with the revision3 encoder.

Quote:  So, codec even though progressive set to incorrect framerate of 59.94 and container properly specifies 29.97. Hei, Rev3 guys please fix this in your encoder!!!

It just so happens that a future firmware on the WDTV may make the files playable but not perfect.