Resetting to factory defaults


#1

Recently, I and several others on this board troubleshot my choppy playback issue.  The ultimate resolution was to reset the hub to factory default firmware.  Clearly the WD firmware updates caused me problems that could not be resolved except to reset.  I can’t believe I’m the only one although I don’t see others discussing this.  I’m hoping to attract  a response from someone at WD.


#2

What do you mean by ‘resetting the hub to factory default firmware’? Do you mean downgrading the firmware or actually just resetting the hub.


#3

richUK wrote:

What do you mean by ‘resetting the hub to factory default firmware’? Do you mean downgrading the firmware or actually just resetting the hub.

My intent was to downgrade the firmware and that’s what I believe I did.


#4

Did you “downgrade the firmware” by downloading a rollback firmware from WD and installing it, or did you “downgrade” by selecting Reset to Factory Defaults from the Hub Settings menu?

The former is an actual downgrade.  The latter is simply placing whatever firmware is currently installed into a default state (and isn’t really a downgrade, just a refresh!).  :)


#5

PixelPower wrote:

Did you “downgrade the firmware” by downloading a rollback firmware from WD and installing it, or did you “downgrade” by selecting Reset to Factory Defaults from the Hub Settings menu?

 

The former is an actual downgrade.  The latter is simply placing whatever firmware is currently installed into a default state (and isn’t really a downgrade, just a refresh!).  :)

I used the internal menu option as you said.  Are you saying that all I actually did was to cancel the customizations I made to the firmware I had previously downloaded?  If so I will confirm the version number tonight as I am at work now.  To me, use of the word “factory” means “as shipped” not "as previously downloaded.  If that’s what actually happened then this situation is even more strange because after I “reset” I went back through the settings and altered them again as appropriate for my installation.


#6

Yeah, resetting to factory defaults just undoes any customised settings for the current firmware.

It’s not my interpretation / understanding of “Factory Default” either!  :)

It shouldn’t make a difference if you then recreate the settings that didn’t previously work right.

The fact that it DOES occasionally make a difference is a cause of some confusion and concern (to me at least, not sure what WD’s take on it is - they’ve only recently started suggesting factory resetting in their firmware instructions).

I tend to factory reset after each firmware update.  It doesn’t take long to get everything configured again using a USB keyboard.  

It would be nice if this wasn’t necessary (and it shouldn’t be) but, for now, it’s just something that minimises the chance of random, unexpected issues.


#7

PixelPower wrote:

Yeah, resetting to factory defaults just undoes any customised settings for the current firmware.

 

It’s not my interpretation / understanding of “Factory Default” either!  :)

 

It shouldn’t make a difference if you then recreate the settings that didn’t previously work right.

 

The fact that it DOES occasionally make a difference is a cause of some confusion and concern (to me at least, not sure what WD’s take on it is - they’ve only recently started suggesting factory resetting in their firmware instructions).

 

I tend to factory reset after each firmware update.  It doesn’t take long to get everything configured again using a USB keyboard.  

 

It would be nice if this wasn’t necessary (and it shouldn’t be) but, for now, it’s just something that minimises the chance of random, unexpected issues.

Well, you’re right.  My firmware version is 2.03.24.  Thanks for telling me what I actually did.  This is the strangest, buggiest device I’ve ever dealt with.


#8

Well, while WE euphemistically shorten the procedure to just “Restore Factory Defaults,”  WD does NOT call it that.

The menu says “RESTORE SETTINGS BACK TO FACTORY DEFAULTS.”

In other words, only settings are being modified.  Firmware, at least IMHO, is most decidedly NOT a “Setting.”

ram1009:    While I understand your frustration, I do find it somewhat amusing that while you (quite understandably) struggle to grasp how this device works, you conclude that the issues you’re having are most certainly bugs and there’s no room for “pilot error…”   :wink:


#9

TonyPh12345 wrote:

Well, while WE euphemistically shorten the procedure to just “Restore Factory Defaults,”  WD does NOT call it that.

 

The menu says “RESTORE SETTINGS BACK TO FACTORY DEFAULTS.”

 

In other words, only settings are being modified.  Firmware, at least IMHO, is most decidedly NOT a “Setting.”

 

ram1009:    While I understand your frustration, I do find it somewhat amusing that while you (quite understandably) struggle to grasp how this device works, you conclude that the issues you’re having are most certainly bugs and there’s no room for “pilot error…”   :wink:

Please tell me what the “pilot” did wrong that was corrected by the reset.  There are a finite number of settings to be reset and I went back through all of them and returned them to where they were before the “reset”.    As I recall you were advising me on that thread and (apparently) allowed me to believe I was returning my firmware to a previous version.  I readily admit my ignorance of this device but remind you that nobody is born with this type of specialized knowledge.  It must be acquired.  I find your semantics argument to be bogus since firmware is the master of all settings.  I  believe the use of the word “factory” to be the source of our disagreement.  To  me it means “the  way it was when it left the factory”.  What it should say is something like “firmware setting defaults” or anything omitting the illusion of a previous firmware revision.  I also remind you that my previous experience is with a WD Live where (I believe) an actual rollback occurs. Remember I told you that I had just received my WD Live back from RMA and it was exhibiting the same symptoms until I rolled it back to 1.03.xxxx as you suggested I should to alleviate my symptoms.  I hope you’re not suggesting that these devices aren’t buggy as I believe you will find many more than me to disagree with you.  I still can’t get subtitles to stay on by default nor can I eliminate the login for network shares.  Yes, they’re minor annoyances but they’re also easy to fix if someone would get off their butt.


#10

Oh HECK no. I KNOW there are bugs… No argument there… BTW, a reset of ANY WDTV does NOT roll back the firmware.


#11

TonyPh12345 wrote:
Oh HECK no. I KNOW there are bugs… No argument there… BTW, a reset of ANY WDTV does NOT roll back the firmware.

Well, somehow I wound up with 1.03.xxx on my WD Live  after a reset which you said would solve my problem and it did.


#12

First, as with most devices, “factory” rest only means to restore something back to its “default” settings, which is to put it back into a state in which it would be as if there were no user inputs.  Just as if you had software on you PC that you had updated, and it had a return to “default” settings, it wouldn’t return it to the previous version, only clear the data that you had set.  “Factory Rest” is the common terminology for this because it is back to the factory settings of how it would be with the new firmware installed.

Second, what you have to remember is that once you flash new firmware, the old firmware is gone the new firmware overwrites it. So there is no way for the HUB to go back to  the state of how you got it with just the push of a button.

And third, what it does, well that one is a little harder to explain, basically it clears out everything but the firmware in the flash memory.  Some times things get written wrong or cached in the wrong way, and some times updates exasperates it all (which as an owner of other media players I can tell you that it is not just a HUB issue) and reseting the device clears that up.  And where as I would have to agree with you some what, the device itself isn’t buggy it is built fairly solid (with the exception of  some power button issues that some have had), it’s the firmware that is buggy which is due to the lack of testing.  Also, I know this from experience, some times the firmware does not flash correctly (which is also not just an issue with the HUB or WDTVs), if you ever experience problems after updating you can, and I always do, reflash the firmware again.  All you have to do is increase the version number in the .ver file then update again with the firmware on a thumbdrive.


#13

Tinwarble wrote:

First, as with most devices, “factory” rest only means to restore something back to its “default” settings, which is to put it back into a state in which it would be as if there were no user inputs.  Just as if you had software on you PC that you had updated, and it had a return to “default” settings, it wouldn’t return it to the previous version, only clear the data that you had set.  “Factory Rest” is the common terminology for this because it is back to the factory settings of how it would be with the new firmware installed.

 

Second, what you have to remember is that once you flash new firmware, the old firmware is gone the new firmware overwrites it. So there is no way for the HUB to go back to  the state of how you got it with just the push of a button.

 

And third, what it does, well that one is a little harder to explain, basically it clears out everything but the firmware in the flash memory.  Some times things get written wrong or cached in the wrong way, and some times updates exasperates it all (which as an owner of other media players I can tell you that it is not just a HUB issue) and reseting the device clears that up.  And where as I would have to agree with you some what, the device itself isn’t buggy it is built fairly solid (with the exception of  some power button issues that some have had), it’s the firmware that is buggy which is due to the lack of testing.  Also, I know this from experience, some times the firmware does not flash correctly (which is also not just an issue with the HUB or WDTVs), if you ever experience problems after updating you can, and I always do, reflash the firmware again.  All you have to do is increase the version number in the .ver file then update again with the firmware on a thumbdrive.

I think we’re beating a dead horse here .

First:  I do NOT agree that the use of the word “factory” is common in the computer industry to describe the reset of a few user inputs to their default values.  Nor do I believe that use of the word “factory” is required or even desirable to convey what will happen when you push the button.  It misled me and I doubt I’m the only one.

Second:   While it may be WDs practice to overwrite old firmware versions when an update occurs there’s no rule that it must be that way.  Saving the old version is a VERY easy argument to make since the firmware of this device is the de facto OS.  Maybe you’ve never flashed the BIOS of your motherboard but that’s what has happened when I did it.  As you say, bad downloads & flashes can (and obviously do) happen…FREQUENTLY apparently. on this device  Why wouldn’t a conscientious manufacturer provide a backup path?

Third:  I get it.


#14

ram1009 wrote:> Saving the old version is a VERY easy argument to make since the firmware of this device is the de facto OS. 

…  But that would double the amount of flash memory required.  My motherboard’s bios is less than 1 megabyte (and it’s a modern motherboard.)   The WD’s firmware is over 90 megabytes. 

…  As far as the efficacy of “Re-Flashing” is concern, I cannot prove that it’s useless, but I find the prospect dubious.   I know for a fact that the first thing the WD does after downloading the firmware is verify its checksum.   After installing the firmware, it verifies the checksum on flash.   And at each boot, it verifies the checksum of EVERY FILE against a manifest of files and md5 checksums containing over 4000 entries.

That Three-phase process leaves no room for error.  I don’t see how it’d be possible to pass all three steps and still have a bad firmware load…   But again, I can’t prove a negative… :wink:


#15

TonyPh12345 wrote:

 


ram1009 wrote:> Saving the old version is a VERY easy argument to make since the firmware of this device is the de facto OS. 


 

…  But that would double the amount of flash memory required.  My motherboard’s bios is less than 1 megabyte (and it’s a modern motherboard.)   The WD’s firmware is over 90 megabytes. 

 

…  As far as the efficacy of “Re-Flashing” is concern, I cannot prove that it’s useless, but I find the prospect dubious.   I know for a fact that the first thing the WD does after downloading the firmware is verify its checksum.   After installing the firmware, it verifies the checksum on flash.   And at each boot, it verifies the checksum of EVERY FILE against a manifest of files and md5 checksums containing over 4000 entries.

 

That Three-phase process leaves no room for error.  I don’t see how it’d be possible to pass all three steps and still have a bad firmware load…   But again, I can’t prove a negative… :wink:

 

I’m sure your right about the size of the file, although 90MB isn’t a big file now days.  My point was/is that WD could have saved the file and allowed a reset to previous version had they wanted to.  I, as a user have no way of knowing for sure which they did, however the use of the word “factory” is an indicator (to me at least) that they are allowing restoration of a previous version.  The word “factory” is unnecessary and inappropriate and it’s use can only lead to misunderstanding their intent.

I’m likewise sure you’re right about the precautions & safeguards that are part of the download/flash process.  Never the less, there can be no doubt (in my mind) that the reset had the effect of fixing some problems even though the settings were restored as before the reset.  Figure that one out if you can.


#16

Actually, I wasn’t refer to “factory” rest being common in computer.  It is common in devices that run firmware, printers, MFC, routers, etc…  It is correct, because once the new firmware is out, it is what is loaded on the devices by the “factory”.

“While it may be WDs practice to overwrite old firmware versions when an update occurs there’s no rule that it must be that way”

Yes, this is the way it is for all devices, my Netgear router, Brother MFC, even my Direct TV recievers.  They all have new firmware loaded on them which has overwritten the old firmware.  I think you are looking at this wrong, you seem to want to compair the HUB to a PC, which it’s not, if anything it is more like a DVD/BD player or a SAT/Cable reciever.

As far as saving the old version, this is a harder argument to make than you think if you know the design of the unit & it is unneccessary also, this why there is a rollback procedure to rollback the firmware to the prior version on the HUB.


#17

Tinwarble wrote:

Actually, I wasn’t refer to “factory” rest being common in computer.  It is common in devices that run firmware, printers, MFC, routers, etc…  It is correct, because once the new firmware is out, it is what is loaded on the devices by the “factory”.  The only firmware loaded by the factory is the original version.  Upgrades come over a wire and are done by the user.  The only thing the factory does is makes it available.

 

“While it may be WDs practice to overwrite old firmware versions when an update occurs there’s no rule that it must be that way”

 

Yes, this is the way it is for all devices, my Netgear router, Brother MFC, even my Direct TV recievers.  They all have new firmware loaded on them which has overwritten the old firmware.  I think you are looking at this wrong, you seem to want to compair the HUB to a PC, which it’s not, if anything it is more like a DVD/BD player or a SAT/Cable reciever.  All I’ve ever said is there’s no way for a user to know in advance that the firmware is overwritten and the use of the word “factory” is unnecessary and misleading. 

 

As far as saving the old version, this is a harder argument to make than you think if you know the design of the unit ( which nobody knows in advance)& it is unneccessary also, this why there is a rollback procedure to rollback the firmware to the prior version on the HUB.  There’s no rollback procedure in any  of the settings.  Only a “reset” which I misunderstood to be a rollback because of the misuse of the word “factory”.    You may have devised your own method to rollback but as far as I know it isn’t supported by WD.


#18

Tinwarble wrote:

Actually, I wasn’t refer to “factory” rest being common in computer.  It is common in devices that run firmware, printers, MFC, routers, etc…  It is correct, because once the new firmware is out, it is what is loaded on the devices by the “factory”.  The only firmware loaded by the factory is the original version.  Upgrades come over a wire and are done by the user.  The only thing the factory does is makes it available.

 

 

It depends on when you hub was manufactured as to what firmware is installed. The latest hubs will have the latest firmware.

 

 


 

As far as saving the old version, this is a harder argument to make than you think if you know the design of the unit <font color="#ff0000" face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" size="2">( which nobody knows in advance)</font>& it is unneccessary also, this why there is a rollback procedure to rollback the firmware to the prior version on the HUB.&nbsp; <font color="#ff0000" face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" size="2">There's no rollback procedure in any  of the settings.  Only a "reset" which I misunderstood to be a rollback because of the misuse of the word "factory".    You may have devised your own method to rollback but as far as I know it isn't supported by WD.</font>

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

_The rollback method is supported by WD and is detailed in the Knowledge base._

&nbsp;

[http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std\_adp.php?p\_faqid=5860](http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=5860)

#19

richUK wrote:

 

Tinwarble wrote:

Actually, I wasn’t refer to “factory” rest being common in computer.  It is common in devices that run firmware, printers, MFC, routers, etc…  It is correct, because once the new firmware is out, it is what is loaded on the devices by the “factory”.  The only firmware loaded by the factory is the original version.  Upgrades come over a wire and are done by the user.  The only thing the factory does is makes it available.

 

 

It depends on when you hub was manufactured as to what firmware is installed. The latest hubs will have the latest firmware.

 

 


&nbsp;

As far as saving the old version, this is a harder argument to make than you think if you know the design of the unit <font color="#ff0000" face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" size="2">( which nobody knows in advance)</font>& it is unneccessary also, this why there is a rollback procedure to rollback the firmware to the prior version on the HUB.&nbsp; <font color="#ff0000" face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" size="2">There's no rollback procedure in any  of the settings.  Only a "reset" which I misunderstood to be a rollback because of the misuse of the word "factory".    You may have devised your own method to rollback but as far as I know it isn't supported by WD.</font>

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

_The rollback method is supported by WD and is detailed in the Knowledge base._

&nbsp;

[http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std\_adp.php?p\_faqid=5860](http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=5860)

 

Thanks for the link.  I will keep it handy.


#20

Hey, don’t use that red, it is really messing with my eyes.:stuck_out_tongue:  Can bairly read your post without going crosseyed.

Actually, once the new firmware is out, it is what is loaded at the “factory”.  The upgrade is only to allow users to install the firmware that is now being loaded.  In other words, to bring previously sold devices up to the new factory firmware.

I believe you are getting hung up on semantics, the meaning of “factory rest” does not mean restoring it the exact state that you got the device.  It means to restore it to the “factory settings” if you were to get the device with the current firmware.  You may be unhappy with the terminology, but it is the common terminology for such devices.