Wow, the CNET video makes me want one NOW (kind of blowing away the Live/Plus).
I think I’m ordering one on Amazon right now (as I said, worse comes to worst I’ll return it within 30 days for a full refund).
richUK wrote:
If you look at these popbox photos you will see that netflix was on it.
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/01/syabass-popbox-get-ready-for-the-new-media-streamer-champ/
plus this video is on the companies blog page
Those are all old links/videos’, from january. The popbox initially was supposed to do netflix, they even advertised it on their site. However, they’ve removed all netflix commercials/info from their site recently. I’m not sure what all this means, MAYBE they initially planned to use an 8642 CPU but went for the 8643 because they wanted to price more agressively ? Or maybe there’s some info that’s not public yet, like Netflix building a software linux decoder ? Or maybe they found an alternative way to support Netflix but got into licensing issues ? Who knows … But currently I wouldn’t bet on Netflix becoming available on the Popbox, for the simple fact that it’s impossible with the current, *public*, knowledge.
Thinking of it, it seems likely that they mean streaming support (via playon for example). That should be possible on any CPU/platform, since your PC will do the decoding. Maybe they created an app for that ?
There is still a little bit before the official release, and you know what they say about assuming things anyway. I would like to recommend that people stop calling Ms. Cleo, consulting their Ouija Boards, or checking their Magic 8 Balls to confirm / deny specs and relax until someone HAS a PopBox and can let everyone else know what’s up.
I preordered one from Amazon, so when it shows up, and if anyone is still interested, I will post up whatever you want to know about it.
I just thought it was a neat box, with the ability to create your own apps =/ Didn’t intend for this to become another weird thread like the one that got closed by Bill.
Well, I pre-ordered one as well, so we can compare notes .
I welcome this thread (it will be interesting to see what Bill has to say about it, but if WD can’t stand competition they are in the wrong business. If nothing more MAYBE their engineers might be able to buy a clue from some of this). If it hadn’t been started I might never have considered it.
The menuing system (at least in the demos) looks fantastic – about the same difference between the Live Plus as Windows is to DOS. Whether it actually *works* remains to be seen, but with Amazon’s 30 day return policy no one would be out any money if it doesn’t (they’ll even pay for shipping if you return it because it doesn’t work).
The one and only thing that might be an issue is this box is coming out fairly early in their developmental cycle – but everyone here should be used to firmware bugs, right?
heavenlydmeonic wrote:
There is still a little bit before the official release, and you know what they say about assuming things anyway. I would like to recommend that people stop calling Ms. Cleo, consulting their Ouija Boards, or checking their Magic 8 Balls to confirm / deny specs and relax until someone HAS a PopBox and can let everyone else know what’s up.
I preordered one from Amazon, so when it shows up, and if anyone is still interested, I will post up whatever you want to know about it.
The netflix discussion wasnt about what the popbox can do at introduction: that’s perfectly clear: Syabas already said that it won’t feature Netflix at introduction. The discussion was whether it will be able to support that in the future, with a FW update. If that would be possible then Netflix would be possible on the WDTV Live as well (and that seems CURRENTLY just as unlikely)
So my point was merely: if you need Netflix, then don’t get your hopes up, regardless of what Syabas promises (well, technically they haven’t even promised it all). And then there’s of course always the chance that they’ll release a ‘plus’ version, just like WD did and HDI did with the Dune 3.0 (where they didnt even change the name, they just changed the CPU). No Ms. Cleo or Ouija boards needed, just logical reasoning 
SjefDeKlerk wrote:
heavenlydmeonic wrote:
There is still a little bit before the official release, and you know what they say about assuming things anyway. I would like to recommend that people stop calling Ms. Cleo, consulting their Ouija Boards, or checking their Magic 8 Balls to confirm / deny specs and relax until someone HAS a PopBox and can let everyone else know what’s up.
I preordered one from Amazon, so when it shows up, and if anyone is still interested, I will post up whatever you want to know about it.
The netflix discussion wasnt about what the popbox can do at introduction: that’s perfectly clear: Syabas already said that it won’t feature Netflix at introduction. The discussion was whether it will be able to support that in the future, with a FW update. If that would be possible then Netflix would be possible on the WDTV Live as well (and that seems CURRENTLY just as unlikely)
So my point was merely: if you need Netflix, then don’t get your hopes up, regardless of what Syabas promises (well, technically they haven’t even promised it all). And then there’s of course always the chance that they’ll release a ‘plus’ version, just like WD did and HDI did with the Dune 3.0 (where they didnt even change the name, they just changed the CPU). No Ms. Cleo or Ouija boards needed, just logical reasoning
Man, I DO hope they get the NetFlix out quick without a bunch of shenanigans … I really like the all-in-one type solutions, maybe because I have one of those Type A personalities =( You know … the TP has to be centered on the roller, cables all have to be hidden, that type of weirdness.
But like Mike brought up: If it ■■■■■ Amazon wil always take it back, no questions asked. I also agree that the menus are really, really impressive. I honestly don’t understand why WD will not integrate some type of Theme kit or Skinning kit for the WD boxes … one of the things I liked about XBMC was that you could create your own skin pretty easily. Maybe just me, but I feel a feature like that would be AWESOME and really put the WD boxes ahead of the game in terms of community friendliness…
But to be honest I have come here quite a bit since I found the WD Live, and haven’t seen a whole lot of interaction from WD with the people who support them and buy their products. This is such a terrible move on WD’s part … it’s like they don’t realize that they could garner SO MUCH CUSTOMER KARMA and probably gain a LOT more customers via word-of-mouth if they did something as simple as hire some slob at $8 an hour to just scan these forums twice a day and chat with everyone … maybe throw us some cool news every now and then =/
When I worked at Dell on R&D, we called our forums “The B#tch Hole” … because that is where people so frustrated with our terrible service would eventually be routed to so they could vent, and no one at Dell would ever have to hear it, because it was completely unmonitored by anyone.
That is kind of the vibe I get here, which is a shame, because I really like my WD Lives … but with more media players coming out by hungry companies who realize that innovation and community interaction are key to sucess, a monolithic, ridgid company like WD may just get lost in the shuffle once the dust starts to settle.
Every tech gadget on the market has some kind of modding community. Any company that does not realize this and try and capitolize on the tweakers and gadgeteers … well, they lose their “walking, talking credit cards” to companies that do.
I agree with Heavenly…, but I feel the need to rain a little on the Popbox parade. First of all, their creator, Syabas, is no better than WD at interacting with their community forum community. One is non-affiliated called “popbox forum”, gets totally ignored. The affiliated forum (tied to the popbox website), while not ignored, is treated with a great amount of condescension by Syabas. My point is, they have their corporate faults too. I did have a pre-order with Amazon for the Popbox, but after waiting nearly 4 months with no delivery in sight, I decided to buy the WDTV Live Plus. I also owned 2 of the original WDTV-hard drive play only devices, which have served me well. So far, I have no regrets. Admittedly, it would be nice to have a choice of skins and open app development, but judging strictly by the merits of doing as advertised, it works. Even more impressive, it works with a home network running 2 computers on Ubuntu Linux. While WD has no docs for using the WDTV L + with Linux, it finds and plays all video, music and pictures from those computers on my network. Thanks to running Samba shares, it can find these files. Netflix is just icing on the cake, icing that probably won’t be on the Popbox when it delivers (whenever that may be, don’t hold your breath for July 4, it’s a 50-50 proposition at best). I think the more interesting device coming down the pipe is the Boxee Box by D-Link. But they just announced it won’t arrive until November, no word on whether or not it will have Netflix either. The rf remote with a qwerty keyboard on the flip side is very cool. Like it or not Netflix is a big selling point. If it doesn’t have it, it’s just slightly better than attaching a computer to your TV directly.
The problem I have now with WD is it does indeed appear as if they are abandoning Live/Plus, and if you are happy with the way everything works now that won’t matter to you. It happens to matter very much to me. I am at a point with my movie collection that the net share video display bug is intolerable. The third party solution (B-Rad) unfortunately doesn’t appear to help me much, either.
So personally I *must* find another solution. That doesn’t mean the Live units I have (3) don’t work for me, only that they don’t work the way I need them to. I’ll still keep two of them (I’m giving one to a friend IF the Popbox or some alternative works better) because I can use one solely for Netflix (yep, works great if that’s all you want) and the other for non-movie playing (where the net share bug isn’t that much of an issue).
The problem of forum support is endemic to all companies, large and small. Apple has one of the largest forums around, and official participation is almost non-existent (even less than here, if you can believe it). Apple employees DO come and help from time to time, but while they are identified as such they are very careful to tell you they in no way represent the “official” position. For whatever reasons companies have yet to embrace the forum paradigm for customer support so I am in no way critical of WD in that regard.
At this moment in time I would in no way recommend folks pre-order a Popbox if they are looking for their first media player. As you point out, it may not come out July 4th and even if it does it may not work even half as well as the Live. However, at this point in time I’m not NECESSARILY going to recommend the Live Plus, either. Unless someone’s sole purpose is to play Netflix, or they understand that the Live right now is as Good as it Gets, they may be in for some bitter disappointment.
mkelley wrote:
The problem I have now with WD is it does indeed appear as if they are abandoning Live/Plus, and if you are happy with the way everything works now that won’t matter to you. It happens to matter very much to me. I am at a point with my movie collection that the net share video display bug is intolerable. The third party solution (B-Rad) unfortunately doesn’t appear to help me much, either.
So personally I *must* find another solution. That doesn’t mean the Live units I have (3) don’t work for me, only that they don’t work the way I need them to. I’ll still keep two of them (I’m giving one to a friend IF the Popbox or some alternative works better) because I can use one solely for Netflix (yep, works great if that’s all you want) and the other for non-movie playing (where the net share bug isn’t that much of an issue).
The problem of forum support is endemic to all companies, large and small. Apple has one of the largest forums around, and official participation is almost non-existent (even less than here, if you can believe it). Apple employees DO come and help from time to time, but while they are identified as such they are very careful to tell you they in no way represent the “official” position. For whatever reasons companies have yet to embrace the forum paradigm for customer support so I am in no way critical of WD in that regard.
At this moment in time I would in no way recommend folks pre-order a Popbox if they are looking for their first media player. As you point out, it may not come out July 4th and even if it does it may not work even half as well as the Live. However, at this point in time I’m not NECESSARILY going to recommend the Live Plus, either. Unless someone’s sole purpose is to play Netflix, or they understand that the Live right now is as Good as it Gets, they may be in for some bitter disappointment.
I understand your sentiment. What demotivated me is that in the latest beta release WD turned off debug info. This might have of course been accidental, but I can’t help to think they did that in an attempt to shut down the homebrew/modification scene. We tried hard to make the WDTV as perfect as possible, adding features and fixing bugs and instead of sending us a bunch of flowers they turn off debug info, making our work much much harder … Quite demotivating. So I’m now also looking at the Popbox, I’m not from the US so currently can’t order one, but I’m sure it will soon be available worldwide anyway.
I understand that the Popbox might be a complete pile of ■■■■, but on the other hand it may also totally deliver on all the claims made by the company … and since we are ordering it form amazon it’s a $0 gamble, and you really can’t go wrong with that =P
I now have three Live Pluses and I think they are great, but I have no problem jumping ship to whichever company shows better support / features … kind of a “vote with your wallet” thing.
And I would still like to skin up my own WD menus…
heavenlydmeonic wrote:
And I would still like to skin up my own WD menus…
You can do that with the homebrew version. There are quite a few nice skins already, like this one: http://wdtv-osdmod.blogspot.com/2010/03/osdmodlive-011.html
SjefDeKlerk wrote:
I understand your sentiment. What demotivated me is that in the latest beta release WD turned off debug info. This might have of course been accidental, but I can’t help to think they did that in an attempt to shut down the homebrew/modification scene.
At the very least the Popbox makers seem to have taken the opposite approach, actively encouraging third party software development (at least through plugins – how much of their system is actually exposed remains to be seen). As a former software engineer this does intrigue me (not sure I want to get back into writing software again, but you never know).
I would go through the third-party firmware process with the Live if the comments about net shares weren’t so discouraging (most folks have said that using skins with net shares is not nearly as good an experience as with a local drive). I suspect one of the things that Popbox does better in this regard is they write their catalog data to a local SD card (they even include one with the box). Now, WD could do the same thing for net shares (like they do for local media – just write out catalog info to whatever local drive is attached) but pretty obviously this requires programming and if there is one thing I’ve concluded it’s that WD doesn’t really know how to program.
mkelley wrote:
I 've concluded it’s that WD doesn’t really know how to program.
Hehe. Well in their defense, WD didn’t program anything. The code was developed by 3 companies:
2) http://www.alphanetworks.com/_english/06_about/01_detail.php?appid=143&pid=11
- MediaLogic (who also wrote the player code for the EM7075 for example)
And then there’s the buddy group, who did the UI and this website:
http://www.thebuddygroup.com/portfolio/details/wd-tv-live-website/page:2
And last but not least, there’s of course Sigma, who did the SDK.
(all the credits are still in the code)
While I do like (love !) this kind of networked development it also creates of course difficulties, especially AFTER the product is finished and I think this is obviously something WD should very carefully reconsider.
Oh. That explains a LOT.
It also explains why the Popbox looks so attractive – at least to these outsider’s eyes, it looks as if the company is a software company (as opposed to WD, which is clearly not and even more clearly now that you’ve illuminated things). I’m sorry, but as a software engineer I’m always on the side of the software guys (WE seem to be able to do most anything, whereas all the hardware folks tell us is “it can’t be done”).
mkelley wrote:
Oh. That explains a LOT.
It also explains why the Popbox looks so attractive – at least to these outsider’s eyes, it looks as if the company is a software company (as opposed to WD, which is clearly not and even more clearly now that you’ve illuminated things). I’m sorry, but as a software engineer I’m always on the side of the software guys (WE seem to be able to do most anything, whereas all the hardware folks tell us is “it can’t be done”).
Well, in my humble opinion, it all boils down to this: one of the things ALL current mediaplayers have in common is that they were rushed to the market, and hence full of bugs when they first hit the market. That doesn’t necessarily have to be a problem, but it does implicate that the manufacturer has a task of ironing out those bugs. Hence I think 2 issue’s are of major importance:
-
Product support must be taken very seriously and ironing out bugs must be of critical importance.
-
An open attitude towards homebrew. Just look at the Wdlxtv project, there are so many very talented guys there who just enjoy improving the product. For free ! Why not use that as a competitve advantage ?
I think it are those 2 points that in the end will make the difference between the winners and losers in this specific industry.
Anway, DVICO has already shown that it doesn’t care AT ALL about product support. I will NEVER buy another DVICO/TVIX mediaplayer ever again. I’m still giving WD the benefit of the doubt, but am also hoping the popbox will be everything the WDTV could have been … I’m not married to WD and if their competition shows to be more serious about product support and homebrew, I’ll gladly jump over.
If you think that your two issue’s are of major importance why are you still giving WD the benefit of the doubt?
richUK wrote:
If you think that your two issue’s are of major importance why are you still giving WD the benefit of the doubt?
Actually, that IS a very good question … I think I’m just hoping WDTV will facilitate homebrew. But turning off debug info actually is quite the contrary … Maybe you’re right and I should preorder that popbox as well, which I probably would have done, if it was available outside the US …
SjefDeKlerk wrote:
heavenlydmeonic wrote:
And I would still like to skin up my own WD menus…
You can do that with the homebrew version. There are quite a few nice skins already, like this one: http://wdtv-osdmod.blogspot.com/2010/03/osdmodlive-011.html
Doesn’t flashing b.Rad’s firmware void the warranty? I know you can flash back and forth from homebrew to stock and vice versa pretty painlessly, though. I guess I was hoping that WD would show a little more interest in supporting this community.
heavenlydmeonic wrote:
Doesn’t flashing b.Rad’s firmware void the warranty?
I’m not even sure, but it probably does. If you are worried about it, then it’s indeed best to stay on the stock FW. However, the WDTV has (by far) the biggest homebrew community of all mediaplayers out there and development there goes way way faster than at WD HQ While you guys are still waiting for native framerate playback, a ‘goto’ function, NFS shares, good DVI support, skinning, volume control and wmapro audio, ‘we’ already have that
For me personally that homebrew community was and still is the main reason I’m using the WDTV and without the above functionality, I wouldnt enjoy my WDTV half as much. But I do see your point and I think homebrew is mainly meant for the tech-savy user, not the regular “I just want to watch movies” user.
