RoofingGuy wrote:
Official statement, saying basically the same things we’ve already been saying: http://community.wdc.com/t5/General-Discussions/Important-The-WD-TV-Live-Plus-Live-Hub-and-Netflix-in-Latin/td-p/253688
Yep, NetFlix DRM-protected media support takes a heavy toll on OEM contracts, so I saw a “no update, ever/ not possible” notice coming soon 
[Deleted]
Habia incorporado la respuesta oficial de WD donde explicaban que la incompatibilidad se debe a requerimientos especificos de Netflix para Argentina y Brazil y como esos requerimientos se resuelven por hrdware no hay otra que comprar la nueva version ya que la que muchos tenemos sigue las especificaciones del servicio de Netflix para yankilandia. No sabia que poner parte de un mail va en contra de las reglas, pero basicamente es lo que explique arriba. Saludos y a comprar nuevo hard!
Es curioso, en Chile lo vendían en las cadenas de retail, supongo que directamente de WD.
La caja ni el sitio web en ninguna parte indica que no sería compatible con Netflix cuando este operara en otro país, sólo indicaba que el servicio de netflix estaba disponible en USA y Canada.
Encuentro extremadamente poco seria la posicion de WD, la cual pasa de ser un bastante buena compañía a una compañía que no volveré a comprarle más productos.
buckey wrote:
Es curioso, en Chile lo vendían en las cadenas de retail, supongo que directamente de WD.
La caja ni el sitio web en ninguna parte indica que no sería compatible con Netflix cuando este operara en otro país, sólo indicaba que el servicio de netflix estaba disponible en USA y Canada.
Encuentro extremadamente poco seria la posicion de WD, la cual pasa de ser un bastante buena compañía a una compañía que no volveré a comprarle más productos.
Compré un puerto USB ya que en ninguna parte de la caja ni el sitio web del fabricante indica que no sería compatible con el cuerpo humano cuando se haga un implante artificial mecánico, sólo indicaba que el dispositivo de reconocimiento estaba disponible únicamente para periféricos relativos a computadores.
Nunca más compraré un puerto USB en mi vida.
No sólo no funciona sino que la validación se hace después que ingresás tu número de tarjeta de crédito a Netflix.
Son unos irresponsables, tanto WD como Netflix. Tendrían que ofrecer la posibilidad de cambiar nuestros aparatos por los que sí funcionan. Así se comportan las marcas serias que les preocupa su prestigio.
Saludos,
Picasa
picasa wrote:
Tendrían que ofrecer la posibilidad de cambiar nuestros aparatos por los que sí funcionan.
¿Por qué? WD no se vendieron las versiones norteamericanas allí. Si los importadores los trajo de todos modos, y los vendió, ¿cómo se WD responsable de acciones de alguien más?
Does anyone actually have one of the WD TV Live players that are made for Latin America? If so, would you please post a picture of the power adapter showing the plug side?
¿Hay alguien que en realidad tienen un WD TV Live que hicimos (WD) para Latinoamerica y Netflix? ¿Si tiene, puede por favor publicar una foto del adaptador de corriente que muestra el lado de enchufe? Gracias.
I have a Live Hub made for US & Canada only and, of course, doesn´t play Netflix in Argentina. I asked WD and they say it will never work.
When I bought it Netflix didn’t existed in Argentina, so I had no expectations about that although it would have been nice from WD to come up with a solution to support this new service. I don’t buy the hardware restriction, but I can’t blame WD for not wanting to develop a new firmware. So, I guess I’ll just cancell my subscription to Netflix.
The issue is not firmware. It’s hardware. The player required a different chipset to work in Latin America. That’s not something that can be fixed with a firmware update.
Rant Warning
I’ve been doing some reading. The LatAM fw can be installed on the U.S model. According to the source, there’s not much difference except for the US extras being removed.
It will be interesting to pull the LatAM hardware apart and seeing exactly what hardware is different as claimed by, well, whoever is claiming that it is different from the NA version. It’s not looking good though - firmware is VERY specific and if it works on the NA box, that says something, no?
I suspect they are all simply rebranded North American units with tweaked firmware. This is simply a method of extracting some cash from the folks who’ve run out and purchased North American units in anticipation. Consider the unit is almost $300US in Brazil (R$499), which is probably why a bunch of people are upset. WD doesn’t want folks vacationing/living in the U.S to take/send their families their $90 North American units back to work anywhere in LatAM.
AFAIK, DRM is mostly software based. While a hardware chip maybe necessary on some accounts, it’s sort of like adding or changing an OS on a hard drive. They are basically independent of one another. The hardware is tweakable by software. This is why game consoles, tablets, phones, media boxes, some TVs, etc are able to gain the ability to view netflix/hulu/amazon. This is why devices which may not have previously been able to run Netflix and Hulu are able to gain that ability with firmware updates. To say a device requires “different hardware” to support DRM is like saying you need a different hard drive to run Windows 7 vs. OSX vs. Linux. It’s not really the same as say, sound chip A being 5.1 and sound chip B being 7.1 where the actual components matter. Note also, that most current game consoles are instantly compatible - so there’s no way to really blame Netflix here.
Netflix simply flipped a switched and turned off whatever flag in their website tells DRM hardware/software that it is US/Canada only. Now it’s up to each hardware manuf. to tweak the software on their end if necessary.
Of course, I’m just being cynical…who knows, maybe it’s the truth. On the other hand, maybe what I’m thinking is founded in which case, shame on you Western Digital.
The LatAM fw can be installed on the U.S model
Really? What is this “source” you reference? Has anyone yet confirmed that they’ve loaded LatAM firmware on a NorthAM device and gotten NetFlix to work in LatAM?
AFAIK, DRM is mostly software based. While a hardware chip maybe necessary on some accounts, it’s sort of like adding or changing an OS on a hard drive.
Wrong.
The DRM is actually hardware based on the Sigma processor.
http://www.sigmadesigns.com/media_processor_overview.php
This is why game consoles, tablets, phones, media boxes, some TVs, etc are able to gain the ability to view netflix/hulu/amazon
Wrong again. Game consoles have GPUs that are separate from the CPUs. When streaming media, the GPUs don’t have much work to do since media streaming is not graphically intense. The GPUs can be re-purposed to put their incredible processing power to other uses, such as decryption and DRM.
You haven’t actually explained why you claim I am wrong. You’re actually in agreeance with what I’ve said. The Sigma chip doesn’t run on it’s own you know…it runs in concert with the firmware loaded to the media box. A box with hardware only DRM means it can never, ever get additional features or updates. Firmware can never add additional DRM based services. So, for example - a roku box could never receive additional channels which require DRM, the way it picked up Amazon and MLB and all those additional channels later on.
And again, while game consoles may contain independent cpu/gpu processors, the majority of other devices do not but are able to gain functionality, so this bears 0 relevance to the matter at hand. Gaming consoles also do indeed TPMs to ensure that people aren’t easily able to run bootleg games and such. The PS3s TPM is even able to detect some pirated digital video files.
Also take into account devices like the Sony media player, Seagate, Roku as mentioned and even the WD NA unit which have all gained additional functionality from Netflix, Hulu, Pandora, etc. after release through firmware - this was attained with a simple software tweak to the TPM.
So I maintain that DRM is mostly software based, with hardware necessary on some accounts…I am not actually going against what you’re saying, I’m just making it clear. Decryption and decoding may be processed by the hardware (be it a secure processor, tpm, cpu or gpu) but the actual flags (meaning, checks and balances…actual ‘yes and no’ operations) are cued/controlled/initiated by software.
The source is here. The user got an error during play, but I suspect this is simply due to software flags not being flipped. For that same reason (completely software based), Netflix doesn’t work on some Honeycomb tablet while it works on others and also why a simple software upgrade allowed hundreds of Android 2.2 and 2.3 phones to now run Netflix.
Finally, I’m not opposed to the possibility of being wrong, I really am not. I’m clearly admitting that I very well could be. This is all speculation, after all. But so far it’s just not looking good. There are no scenarios in which it has ever been necessary to change hardware in order to deal with ‘different’ DRM in terms of any media device which supports it in the first place. So, that good ole’ Roku is going to pretty much run any DRM it needs to until it runs out of physical memory and likewise, so should the WD box.
In essence all I think WD would need to do is write some conversion firmware which sacrifices so and so US only apps and flips the switch to allow Netflix to work in said LatAM boxes. Alas, it won’t happen because that won’t make them any money.
even the WD NA unit which have all gained additional functionality from Netflix, Hulu, Pandora, etc. after release through firmware - this was attained with a simple software tweak to the TPM.
No it wasn’t. The Live was physically incapable of connecting to NetFlix in North America… that’s why they had to build the Live Plus and infuriate all the Live owners who wanted Netflix without having to buy a new device.
A box with hardware only DRM means it can never, ever get additional features or updates. Firmware can never add additional DRM based services.
Baloney. Blockbuster’s DRM based service was added through firmware to the Live Plus, because it used the same DRM that the hardware was already capable of. But no amount of software can turn a non-DRM-capable chip into a DRM-capable chip.
It seems pretty clear that Netflix chose a different scheme for streaming, presumably so that the Latin American users wouldn’t try and beat the system and connect to North American services against the Terms Of Use.
WD has no choice but to follow their licencing agreements with Netflix. If Netflix says you can’t just tweak the North American software to connect to the DRM protected stream, and instead need separate hardware to make sure that the regions are protected in their content, then WD has to do that.
Don’t you think if WD just wanted to make money, they would have “flipped the switch” as you say, and just started selling their existing units in Latin America, instead of putting the time, money and effort into developing 2 new players that are designed to meet Netflix’s requirements? And then WD wouldn’t have to deal with all this uproar over the North American players that have been exported outside of WD’s designated sales region. Same with the Live/Live Plus issue and North American Netflix and annoyed customers being forced to buy a whole new device – if WD could have just added it to existing machines, they would have.
Neoprimal,
This issue is not unique to WD. I got bit by it with my Panasonic blu ray player I bought back in 09. I mentioned this in another thread as well. When Netflix inked a deal with Panasonic, Panasonic had to alienate all the buyers of their hardware from pre-2010 models. There was a hardware limitation that Panasonic could do nothing about. So, my DMP60 Blu Ray player can play Amazon on Demand, and whatnot, but can never play Netflix. Panasonic had to basically create separate firmware updates for a while and eventually cut off all the earlier hardware (Blu Ray’s, TV’s, etc.). So, I understand how annoying it is, but it is not a problem of the hardware manfacturers…they have to provide a platform that can run the DRM of the content providers. If they can’t, they have to upgrade their devices and alienate prior buyers.
Actually, with further reflection, it probably comes down to Microsoft’s requirements and not Netflix’s, in terms of robustness of the protection. WD is pretty much obligated to make sure the content protection can’t be bypassed (such as by installing a different region’s firmware).
The Latin American devices might contain virtually all the same parts, but there WILL have to be hardware differences so that the North American firmware can not be loaded on to a Latin American device, and vice-versa.
So, complain to Microsoft that their DRM is forcing WD to sell you a different hardware revision. 
Mu,
I understand the issue is not unique but in THIS scenario, I’m sorry but I’m calling their bluff. In your case that seems very well possible. In that case you’re talking about a chip which is able to run this software but not that software. We’re talking simple software incompatibility in that case. But with this Netflix thing, it’s not at all that different. This is a chip that can run Netflix software perfectly fine. A chip that is FULLY capable. It’s a matter of instructing it to work and ‘do it’s thing’ from an IP address that is not of US origin. Going back to my OS analogy, your scenario is like trying to run a Windows 7 and up program on Windows XP. It can’t be done because perhaps this program requires files used only in Windows 7, perhaps DX11, a more powerful processor, more RAM, whatever the case…that’s a matter of the capability just not being available in that chip. Heck an even better example would be, say trying to run a 64bit only app on a 32bit processor. It’s just not going to work.
The WD and Netflix would be like not being able to run a program in Windows 7 because you simply haven’t enabled or disabled a certain option in the bios. So, the system is 100% capable but WD isn’t willing to do it for whatever their reason.
I’m not actually annoyed about any of this, apart from the poss. of WD lying about this difference in hardware. I really don’t care THAT much. I’m just arguing my case here. As I mentioned, she gets full use out of the WD for other purposes. I just think that IF what I suspect is the truth, WD is being really sleazy. Claim to push out ‘different’ players which are actually just rebranded NA units with LatAM firmware and then charge the natives $300US for it. That’s terrible. For that, just buy a PS3 which is 250 bucks and has BluRay and can play games to boot.
I’ve also said that I very well could be wrong.
Roofing,
Not refuting that. I can say that I did call Netflix and I got a pretty knowledgable (sounding) CSR who says that at this point it’s not up to Netflix. I say knowledgable sounding because he knew instantly that only consoles and a few HDTVs were available in the Caribbean. He said it was up to the partners to update their firmware and do their thing.
You’ll get no complaints from me. Either way, a person would have to be a complete ninkompoop to buy it for the $R499 WD plans to sell them for - rebranded or not, when PS3s and Xboxes and Wiis are being sold for less and have more features/capability. So good luck to WD regarding that plan.
My Mom’s in no rush to watch Netflix. She can barely deal with the WD, lol. In time I’m sure Roku, Apple or one of the many other media box vendors will either update their firmware to be able to switch between NA or non-NA regions or release a product which is Netflix capable outside of the US at the same price as their NA counterparts. I certainly won’t be buying her a PS3, Xbox or Wii just to use Netflix. Worse case scenario, I do the ghetto hookup and buy a really long HDMI cable for the laptop, haha 
I will say though, kudos to WD for making a move in terms of being the only non-console media player running Netflix outside of the U.S.
Neoprimal wrote:
Mu,
I understand the issue is not unique but in THIS scenario, I’m sorry but I’m calling their bluff. In your case that seems very well possible. In that case you’re talking about a chip which is able to run this software but not that software. We’re talking simple software incompatibility in that case. But with this Netflix thing, it’s not at all that different. This is a chip that can run Netflix software perfectly fine. A chip that is FULLY capable. It’s a matter of instructing it to work and ‘do it’s thing’ from an IP address that is not of US origin. Going back to my OS analogy, your scenario is like trying to run a Windows 7 and up program on Windows XP. It can’t be done because perhaps this program requires files used only in Windows 7…
You’re mixing tomatoes and potatos.
To correct your analogy, it’d be like running the PowerPC build of Windows XP on an Intel CPU… you can’t do it. The CPU instruction sets are different.
In the case of DRM, yes, there certainly ARE software components of DRM. But if the CPU doesn’t have the DRM instruction set, then the code can’t execute.
And, no, it’s not as simple as saying “Recompile it so that it doesn’t use those instructions.” Well, then that would be 100% software-based DRM, and that’s not what the sigma’s are designed to do. They don’t have NEARLY the horsepower needed to decrypt a stream at 10 megabits per second.
You can think about it all ya want. All you need to do is look at the Sigma reference document that shows which forms of DRM each processor is capable of decoding IN HARDWARE.
If 80 different premium services all use the same form of DRM, then all that’s needed is a firmware update for the FRONT END for those services. But the BACK-END processing of *ALL* of those services would be handled identically in hardware.
Another analogy is Hardware Graphics acceleration in your PC. Yes, the equivalent Graphics can be handled in SOFTWARE, but at a SEVERE performance penalty. Game writers know this, so they put on the box that, for example, “Hardware acceleration required,” well, they didn’t write the software to handle the polygon rendering, and instead use specific GPU instructions to tell the HARDWARE to do the extremely complex math itself.
@Neoprimal - it is not a matter of what WD can or cannot do. It is a matter of what Netflix WILL or WILL NOT allow WD to do. And that is dependent upon what the original content providers will allow. WD is just at the end of an archaic and byzentine licensing chain.
If Netflix says you need new hardware with HARDWARE DRM support, then that is what WD has to do to carry Netflix. As with the NA WD Live+ device which was introduced to support Netflix US/CA. The old Live’s do not support Netflix US/CA, and cannot because of Netflix licensing requirements.
So I fail to understand why you are all over WD when it is Netflix that have made these conditions. You really need to take you gripes up with Netflix.
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