Sorry for my english…
Yesterday I bought the 1TB version. I updated with the latest firmware and… go!
But all my mkv (1080p) are subject at judder. Reading other post i found that many people in this forum have this problem.I have always appreciated and bought WD product but this problem is really critical for me. The judder is not always but is very annoying. I bought this product only for mkv files and now…
you’re not the only one
Unfortunately it seems the Amlogic chip cannot deal with the high bitrates of a full sized Blu Ray rip to MKV. I have had the same problems. The only way I have got around it is by using Handbrake to reduce the size of the MKV. So much for a full HD experience 
Dee1707 wrote:
So much for a full HD experience
Size doesn’t matter. 
The movies are already highly compressed. The data on a DVD, when expanded back to raw, corresponds to a quality level of maybe 80% (some more, some less). The studios releasing the disks are already throwing out a bunch of “unnecessary” information before the disk even gets into your hands. They figure you’ll never notice the missing picture information.
And the stream on the disk is already compressed. It’s not the raw data stream.
Compressing it with a better algorithm doesn’t ruin the stream in and of itself. What loses quality is when the compression is done poorly/excessively… especially when the stream is compressed to a “target size”. The size may be traditional/convenient, but it’s arbitrary and generally a poor choice.
Some 1080 streams compressed down to a 12-ish GB file look absolutely horrible… some compressed down to an 8-ish GB file are visually identical to the original 1080 stream.
It depends on the stream, the encoder, the settings…
But it’s incorrect to say that proper, decent .mkv files aren’t “true HD.”
From what I’ve seen, many/most decent .mkv files are equal to or better than what gets broadcast as “HD.” (And ya, I realize most HD is only 720 and not 1080, but I mean in terms of compression and loss and image quality.)
RoofingGuy wrote:
From what I’ve seen, many/most decent .mkv files are equal to or better than what gets broadcast as “HD.”
But then the same goes for SD. Many SD broadcasts are over-compressed to digital and worse than a purchased DVD copy. You then shrink the DVD with Handbrake and end up with a better stream than what you’re paying the satellite/cable company to pipe into your house.
I propose to send an email to tech support…
it’s jus because it doesn’t support 1080p24…I see judders on every video, while I don’t see any on my pc…
No, it’s not “just” because.
The OP and several other posters in this thread and others are having periodic problems, not constant “judder” for the entire playback. “Not always, but annoying”… sounds more like a bitrate issue – especially if recoding the file makes the problem go away.
Duplicate frames from the 24/30 fps pulldown issue is a separate problem.
Many people use the term Judder without knowing what that actually means.
That’s why I’m working on getting my hands on one of these EP’s so I can see it for myself.
creep89 wrote:
it’s jus because it doesn’t support 1080p24…I see judders on every video, while I don’t see any on my pc…
Your PC supports 1080p24 display natively? Not likely. Unless you’ve spent a lot of money on specialized video cards and monitors, you don’t have a PC that supports 24p native playback.
MOST monitors today cannot display that slowly, and only a few support perfect multiples of 24Hz. MOST are at 60Hz (or very close to it), which means that your PC has to do the exact same 2:3 telecining that a media player does at 1080p60 to get it to display without “Screen Tearing.”
At least in Win7, you can verify this by clicking the background, then Personalize, then click DISPLAY, CHANGE DISPLAY SETTINGS, ADVANCED SETTINGS, then the MONITOR tab… Mine says 60Hz.
So, what I’m getting at is that if you DON’T see artifacts on your PC but you DO see them on the EP, it is NOT Telecine JUDDER you’re seeing, meaning it’s not a result of it not supporting 1080p24.
JUDDER is a VERY SPECIFIC artifact. Just because you see motion that isn’t smooth, it doesn’t mean you’re experiencing JUDDER.
We need to be VERY specific here, otherwise you could be chasing wild geese. Because if it IS judder you’re seeing, there’s nothing we can do to fix it. But I don’t think it is Judder you’re seeing.
I just managed to get my hands on a 1TB EP for some testing. I can tell you without a doubt that all of my 1080p24 material plays JUST FINE on the EP. My rip of my Avatar BD plays beautifully on my 55" LG LCD when set to 1080p60. There MAY be judder there, because it is doing Telecine, but I can tell you that it’s extremely mild (I can’t even notice it when I’m looking for it, and it certainly doesn’t jump out at me)
I tried a whole slew of test files. I DID start to get some Motion Breakdown when total bitrates exceeded about 40 Mbps (which is actually pretty impressive). All of these files are 1080p23.976 fps material.
This is a group of test files at specific bandwidths.
ie, bird20.mkv is at approx. 20mbit per second.
54,870,351 bird20.mkv
65,808,664 bird24.mkv
76,612,350 bird28.mkv
93,071,150 bird34.mkv
103,989,696 bird38.mkv 108,638,208 bird38.m2ts
--mkv mild breakdown--- --- m2ts still good ---
114,918,832 bird42.mkv 120,041,472 bird42.m2ts
--mkv moderate bkdown-- --- m2ts still good ---
140,559,134 bird50.mkv 146,817,024 bird50.m2ts
153,521,171 bird55.mkv 160,333,824 bird55.m2ts
--mkv bad beyond this-- --- m2ts still good ---
167,019,983 bird60.mkv 174,422,016 bird60.m2ts
193,822,181 bird70.mkv 202,389,504 bird70.m2ts
--- m2ts bad beyond ---
219,299,090 bird80.mkv 228,974,592 bird80.m2ts
242,133,511 bird90.mkv 252,801,024 bird90.m2ts
These test files have NO AUDIO tracks. Just video. I’m actually impressed that M2TS went up to 70 megabits per second without noticable motion breakdown! But MKV started suffering as early as 42 megabits per second. Now, if you start adding multipe audio tracks to these files, the bandwidth starts going down real quick.
I’m sorry then (for my english, too)…I really don’t know which is the cause of my problems when playing mkvs…I’m not an expert
creep89 wrote:
I’m sorry then (for my english, too)…I really don’t know which is the cause of my problems when playing mkvs…I’m not an expert
- *No worries. I want to get to the bottom of the issue, too.
anyway, it seems that the refresh is not perfect, as if the video jumps a little forward, especially when the camera moves slowly…not in the very fast scenes…
TonyPh12345 wrote:
Your PC supports 1080p24 display natively? Not likely. Unless you’ve spent a lot of money on specialized video cards and monitors, you don’t have a PC that supports 24p native playback.
MOST monitors today cannot display that slowly, and only a few support perfect multiples of 24Hz. MOST are at 60Hz (or very close to it)
In theory, a true 120Hz display should be able to “natively” show 24Hz by showing each frame 5 times, but to my knowledge the 120Hz LCD panels only show a 60Hz input and interpolate the other 60 frames (i.e. they aren’t “true” 120Hz). As far as I know the only monitors that truly work at 120Hz, have dual link DVI inputs for 3D, and there’s only a couple of those.
Alrighty! Sorry it’s been so long since I’ve been back in this thread.
But, I have been playing around with the EP for a few weeks now, and I can tell you this:
I see what LOOKS like Judder in several of my MKV files, but what I’m seeing is NOT JUDDER.
Let me be more specific.
It does show up in panning motions and other similar scenes… but not EVERY similar scene. Judder will affect everything equally.
And more to the point, when I watch the exact same content and files on my Live / Live+ and Hub, it is NOT seen.
I think we flat-out have a nasty display bug in the EP. The EP and Mini are based on a totally different chipset, so I’m not surprised that it’s localized…
so, do you think it can’t be solved anyway?
No, I think it should be solved.
TonyPh12345 wrote:
Alrighty! Sorry it’s been so long since I’ve been back in this thread.
But, I have been playing around with the EP for a few weeks now, and I can tell you this:
I see what LOOKS like Judder in several of my MKV files, but what I’m seeing is NOT JUDDER.
Let me be more specific.
It does show up in panning motions and other similar scenes… but not EVERY similar scene. Judder will affect everything equally.
And more to the point, when I watch the exact same content and files on my Live / Live+ and Hub, it is NOT seen.
I think we flat-out have a nasty display bug in the EP. The EP and Mini are based on a totally different chipset, so I’m not surprised that it’s localized…
Hi everybody,sorry for my english, i find this thread looking for a solution for my problem, so i want to add my experience.
The problem is more visible in slow camera motion and it’s not continue, it shows like a little stop on the image flow, like a refresh bug. I have like 200 mkv files and MANY of them present this problem, more often on 1080 but even many 720. I still have my old WD TV and the same files are perfectly riproduced.
This problem is getting worst when the scene is more detailed, like water scenes or flock of birds scenes for example. and this make me think about a decoding problem for the EP, or in the worst case an hardware limit of the product.
Now, the problem seems to be clear and noticed by many people as i can read… is there any “WD developer” working on it? is there any “official” recognition of the problem.
Imho this problem makes any other EP problem simply ridiculous, here we have an HD product that is not able to play HD files, could we have a bigger problem?
thank you for your time.
Federico
I’m not actually sure WD writes the code for the EP or the MINI. I’m thinking the code comes from the chipset manufacturer…
I really hope this problem can be solved by a firmware upgrade that’s why i was asking if any “wd developer” noticed this problem… it will be nice if someone says: we know the problem, we are working on it…cause i saw thousand of “non problems” or “really small problems” mentioned …but not this one that’s really really big!
I just bought 3 EP 2tb for me and my family, i was really happy with the wd tv so i had no doubt in buying them… and now i’m really disappointed aferter spending about €750…
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