Important: WDTV HDMI/HDCP Video+Audio Output Simultaneously through HDMI and Optical Output

WD Legacy Products WD TV Live Hub Discussions
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Hello Everyone,

This is VERY Important Information concerning the Capabilities of the WDTV Live Hub Media Player.
I am here to inform everyone truthfully and honestly before they make a purchase so they know of the limitations I have faced with no resolve in sight. Therefore I have made a detailed post to save frustrations.

WDTV Live Hub 1tb unit

Samsung LCD TV
Harman Kardon AVR 

Issue: I was told this is a limitation of the device.

For those of you who DO NOT have HDMI inputs on your AVRs, and your TV cannot Pass DTS/DD through its Optical Port when connected to an HDMI/HDCP Device, this will be a BIG Problem.

When WDTV Live Hub is set to STEREO (Connected via HDMI) its Optical Port will not Pass the DTS or DD stream to your AVR. I was told this is a limitation of the device and not a bug or a missing feature.

Possible reasons why this is so is due to HDCP and the big mess HDMI is.

Your only solution would be to purchase an HDTV with a built in USB Media Player that will do DTS and DD out through its optical Port or another device. The LCD TVs limit the type of Media you can play so you will need to follow strict Guidelines to get a functional result.

Also, Note that the WDTV is NOT the only device with this limitation. This limitation is apparent in many other Competitor’s devices as well as operating systems such as Windows 7 where only 1 Default Device can be selected to output Audio. For those who misunderstand this concept. You can output Multiple Streams via Different Applications, but not 1 stream via One Application to Multiple Outputs ie Analog and Digital at the same time.

Realtek offers a solution for those who do not have HDMI Enabled video cards but can pass audio from motherboard SPDIF to the Video Card’s SPDIF Input. This eliminates the need to constantly switch Default Audio Devices.

This is not WDs fault. This is entirely HDMIs HDCP protocol that is preventing honest users from getting the functionality which used to be Default with DVD players of days past.

In Conclusion: You cannot Pass Optical DTS/DD when your WDTV is connected Directly to the TV with HDMI.

This is a setup most people will opt for simply because Not all Programming needs the AVR to be on. Sometimes we want to watch Stereo content online, and sometimes MultiChannel Content.  The only way to achieve this is to Constantly switch between Stereo and Passthrough Via Optical Only depending on the source content. 
This is by far the most annoying “feature” but it is not WDs fault. It is a limitation imposed on certain hardware manufacturers. The TV with its media player is able to do this because it is not using HDMI, it is using USB, and therefore it does not need HDCP compliancy in order for it to pass its DTS/DD stream to the AVR, while also having stereo output through its own speakers.

Not Everyone has HDMI on their AVR

Not Everyone wants to have their AVR on blasting MultiChannel audio when its just a TV show that is encoded in Stereo. 
If you are looking for this functionality, Contact me and I will help you set it up, but it will not be with a WDTV device.

Thanks for reading my post. You have been informed. The WDTV is a wonderful media player, though with a few quirks, and if you can live with this limitation, great. Unfortunately I cannot live with it, and I am returning my unit.

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In short, your opinion is fair, but your description may errantely misguide some folks.  So I’m just offering an opposing opinion.  ;)

When WDTV Live Hub is set to STEREO (Connected via HDMI) its Optical Port will not Pass

the DTS or DD stream to your AVR. I was told this is a limitation of the device and not a bug or a missing feature.

That is true.   If you set it to STEREO it’s going to send STEREO streams to all devices, whether it’s HDMI, Analog, or Optical … and it will send to all three simultaneously.

You cannot Pass Optical DTS/DD when your WDTV is connected Directly to the TV with HDMI.

This is not  true, at least the way you’ve stated it.  You can certainly pass DTS and DD to your AVR via OPTICAL if you set the audio mode to “Digital Passthrough via optical”

So I’m guessing what you are intending to say is that you cannot simultaneously send Digital Surround through Optical while simultaneously sending 2-Channel Stereo through HDMI.

That is, indeed, correct, though your premise implies a much more serious issue.

Though, I also question the assumption that this “is a setup most people will opt for…”

If one has an AVR, I don’t understand why one wouldn’t use the AVR for everything.   It’s much simpler (IMHO) to use it for everything than it is to use it selectively…

Heck, on both of my systems, I have the TV speakers turned entirely off.   If it weren’t for FCC certification requirements in the US (and the equivalent in most countries) TV makers possibly wouldn’t even put speakers and the associated decoders and amplifiers in the large screen sets anymore, because a good chunk of people are using outboard audio processing anyway.

Last time I checked, even the $3000+ TVs had terrible sound quality anyway because of the microscopic speakers they have to use to keep the already slender profile of the sets minimal… :slight_smile:

 Not Everyone wants to have their AVR on blasting MultiChannel audio

when its just a TV show that is encoded in Stereo. 

It won’t.   If the TV show is encoded in Stereo, your AVR would be outputting Stereo, not blasting anything.  ;)

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Tony: Guilty as charged :smiley:

You are absolutely right. I did not word certain points properly.

Your post makes great Valid points, and yeah these TV sets follow old regulations on having speakers. Essentially they are just like computer monitors but with speakers.

My main beef is not with WDTV but with Manufacturers not fighting this HDCP Bull. We all know it limits Honest Paying customers.

And I have a family. They dont TOUCH my AVR. My wife refuses to touch my AVR no matter how much I convince her its ok. My Daughter is not allowed by my wife to touch my AVR, heheh.

So the WDTV should automatically be able to Detect and switch where the connections are made. HDMI is able to support this feature.  

Anyway, don’t worry about opposing me, you’re right in what you said. But the TV has speakers, and for the odd TV show or something with Mp3 2 channel, I don’t see the need to have the AVR turned on. The AVR gets used for Movies etc. Hopefully WD will stand up for us customers and give us more freedom with the hardware. My question is, if its possible, why not, right?

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Hello everyone,

I have the same problem, and I think it is not unusual situation. I have a new Bose system that listens for audio from TV and chooses best audio between direct inputs and TV. For example TV sends PCM and media player sends DTS – it will choose DTS.

What is the real limitation? Blu-ray players for example have similar option.

We want to have an option to send untouched audio through the optical out, regardless of recoding for HDMI device if needed. Usually TVs does not support audio above Dolby Digital and doesn’t pass-through them.

Please help!

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halata wrote:

 For example TV sends PCM and media player sends DTS – it will choose DTS.

Please help!

PCM and DTS are two different things. Don’t confuse the two.

As for the so-called limitations expressed in this thread, these are not so much failings of the Live Hub, but of standards forced on them by other sources. There is no way any one device can meet all the myriad requirements of content providers, codec creators, licensing, anti-piracy and a host of other things that changing technology demands. That’s why it is important to do your homework on what it is you want and need and figure out if the device meets them. So far, my Live Hub does all I want it to in my 5.1 theater setup connected to my Onkyo receiver that does all audio decoding on a pass-through signal via HDMI from the Hub.

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I think I know what I want from my hub, the question is it possible or not.

I’m in this situation because I had the hub already and then I got the audio system for my other room. I have Bose V-Class Lifestyle and WD hub as a primary system and I have no problems, because there is no need to send multiple streams and Lifestyle does the job.

There are two parts of my case:

-          To send digital pass-through to HDMI and Optical simultaneous (my last player did this)

-          To send different stream to HDMI and Optical (Blu-ray players do that)  

WD hub can send audio to all outputs in stereo mode, but when you need digital pass-through you have to choose Optical or HDMI. This is the first limitation for my setup and I have seen a lot of stuff doing that – so I think it is not a problem of any kind.

I suppose the second one is the real problem for WD – to send 2 different audio streams. When HDMI device (TV in my case) does not support some codec (DTS in my case), WD send recoded audio that TV can understand and this is working perfect. My problem is that in this case I need original DTS on the Optical output also. This might be a technical limitation of the platform. For the policy requirements – I’m not informed and I can’t tell anything. Still I have seen current devices to do that, so probably there is a solution for the policy problem too.

If it is a platform limitation, I will start looking for other options. If this can be added with changes in feature firmware – I will wait.

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‘I suppose the second one is the real problem for WD – to send 2 different audio streams. When HDMI device (TV in my case) does not support some codec (DTS in my case), WD send recoded audio that TV can understand and this is working perfect. My problem is that in this case I need original DTS on the Optical output also.’

I don’t understand what you are asking here. The limitation is you to be honest. The Box does both. Why would you want/need DTS/Stereo. The box CAN do both. If you have an amp with optical in it will do DTS. If you want it to play on a TV without DTS it will do that as well.

You will never need it to do DTS and Stereo at the same time, so why ask?

What are you asking WD to do exactly.

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wdtvhub wrote:
What are you asking WD to do exactly.

I think he wants the Hub to decode completely different audio streams of his choosing on the fly and output them on the HDMI and optical outputs simultaneously. That’s a lot to ask of a player with such limited processing power and I doubt anything in this price range can do this.

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This is NOT a lot to ask for those of you who are going on about how WEAK the WDTV Processor is. I have a BluRay player from around 2007 that sends Decoded Stereo Audio to the TV using HDMI, AND Also sends 5.1 DD or DTS Bitstream to its Optical Out. Please don’t mock some of us. 

Secondly, the REALTEK Processor is a seperate processor on your WDTV Live Hub. This processor is also on many motherboards and uses the same Realtek chipset. It is ENTIRELY Possible to do this and I am doing it on a PC using a file called RTKAUD.DAT (something similar, dont remember off the top of my head) Google it.

Where is WD Tech Support? Where are the Engineers? Isn’t this a support Forum? DO you guys realize what’s going on here? These companies have made forums for Consumers to Help Other Consumers. Like a Smart Baby sitter who lets the older kids look after the younger ones.

NOTHING is getting solved. All I see here are some people Genuinely helping, and others taking the stand for their WDTV as if Western Digital did them a favor. Some of these people KNOW they got screwed, and now they are doing whatever they can to Defend and Justify their Mistake by saying this like “What do you Expect?” “Its just how it is” “Why would you need this feature?” 

Excuse yourselves, you are not helping. You want to live with limitations, thats fine, but if you don’t have a solution, don’t comment.

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UnhappyCamper wrote:

Where is WD Tech Support? Where are the Engineers? Isn’t this a support Forum?

 

There’s your problem. Although WD owns and operates this forum, it is a user-supported forum and not an official WD support forum. Your whiny diatribes are getting very tedious. Anyone is free to comment in here, whether you like it or not.

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UnhappyCamper wrote:

 

Where is WD Tech Support? Where are the Engineers? Isn’t this a support Forum? DO you guys realize what’s going on here? These companies have made forums for Consumers to Help Other Consumers. Like a Smart Baby sitter who lets the older kids look after the younger ones.

 

NOTHING is getting solved. All I see here are some people Genuinely helping, and others taking the stand for their WDTV as if Western Digital did them a favor. Some of these people KNOW they got screwed, and now they are doing whatever they can to Defend and Justify their Mistake by saying this like “What do you Expect?” “Its just how it is” “Why would you need this feature?” 

Excuse yourselves, you are not helping. You want to live with limitations, thats fine, but if you don’t have a solution, don’t comment.

 

No - this is not a support forum, I have thought that somebody as smart as you make out would have figured that out.

Its user to user forum with some mods popping in with the odd suugestion. If you want support email or ring WD.

http://support.wdc.com/contact/index.asp?wdc_lang=en

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Thanks! :smiley: