FW 2.02.32: Micro judders playing MKVs with Frame Rate 24.000 fps

After all this long time waiting for a new firmware I’m very disappointed that the judder problem playing MKVs with a frame rate of 24.000 fps is not fixed.

Problem: All MKVS with Frame Rate 24.000 fps (real 24p) suffers from a micro judder every 41.6 seconds playing with the WD TV Live.

All MKVs with Frame Rate 23.976 play fine as expected.

I meanwhile bought a raspberry pi using raspbmc and xbmc just being able to smoothly play such MKVs … this works perfectly but my family and me would like to see this finally fixed with the WD TV Live since we prefer the UI of the WD TV Live Streaming Media Player (Gen 3).

Perhaps, this thread helps people who don’t want to accept current issue and helps to express their wish regarding this specific problem.

Thx WD for caring from now and thx to all joining this thread.

Yeah, encountered this problem last weekend. Even though almost all i have is at 23,976, would be nice to get this fixed.

Sadly not much hope they will do anything, as i have an old model, was called wd tv live i think, that carries the same problem yet today…

Hi all,

I just want to inform you that after 2 1/2 months of exchanging emails and example film clips with WD support I got the information that WD is NOT ABLE to fix this issue.

They confirmed to me that the WD TV Live Streaming Media Player (Gen 3) WDBGXT0000NBK has this problem. They state this is a rare problem but as far I as know the most encoders use the original frame rate of BluRay material. Such 24.000 fps framerate BluRays are not as rare as WD states, just some actual example titles of movies with 24.000 fps instead 23.976 fps

12 Years a Slave 2013

Buddy 2013

Homefront 2013

Hummingbird 2013

Non-Stop 2014

The last Days on Mars 2013

The Family 2013

Transcendence 2014

So, a very disappointing situation but that makes me doom all WD home entertain products (I’ve three boxes) out of my environment and burns WD for the future.

Just for those having the same problem and thinking to invest time with WD support,

I think what they meant is that out of those 24 FPS files, it does not happen with all encodes. At least that’s my experience. I also could play those without micro stutters muxing to m2ts. Have you tried that on your sample files?

No, I haven’t tested it and I won’t invest more time in this. I bought the players since my collection consists of mkvs. WD TV Live Streaming G3 came to market promising to handle mkvs in a correct way … but it can’t.

If a remux to m2ts works it even more blames WD since this would mean it is a simple software problem by the video codec is the same in both container formats mkv and m2ts.

So, xbmc on a Raspberry Pi, Dreambox, VLC, popbox v8 etc., all can handle real 24.000 fps mkv but the WD TV Live does not. I’m now looking for an alternative with a GUI and handling accepted by my family to replace the WD products. (dot)

Well, this is probably a can of worms … :neutral_face:

Personally speaking i have NO content that is 24.000 fps  … 90% of my video is 23.976 fps (the rest being  29.97 NTSC and 25.00 PAL)

Just “skimming” through this 24p “Wiki”  found this interesting line …

An added technical problem is that the popular Matroska (.MKV) video container format allows novice users to declare that 23.976 video is 24.000, and this can result in codec conversion errors with concomitant video stuttering (due to frame “dropping” and “cloning”) and loss of audio sync.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p

You listed a few movies in one of your previous posts … that you say are “24.000fps”

Which is odd, because my backups of some of those are 23.976fps … and they play buttery smooth with no “jitters” on WDTV

Quote: So, xbmc on a Raspberry Pi, Dreambox, VLC, popbox v8 etc., all can handle real 24.000 fps mkv but the WD TV Live does not

XBMC on those devices can Switch between “Software Decoding”  and “Hardware Decoding” to deal with Incorrectly encoded files and incorrect framerates. (eg. a incorrectly enocoded 23.976fps to 24.000fps files)

WDTV are “Hardware Decoding” players … and thus, files containers/codecs/framerates/parameters *must* fall within “Spec” for optimal playback.

Hi Joey,

don’t you think the engineering level of WD support would have told me if they think the mkvs were incorrectly encoded?

If you do not have a real 24.000 fps mkv you don’t have the problem but thanks for your suggestions.

ok, i will admit “some” of my 23.976 movies don’t handle the 1080p@24Hz setting too well … but play fine at 1080p@60Hz

more techno-babble here:  http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/294087-Question-about-Blu-ray-frame-rates

Some more info about this:

  1. I could test the new box ‘WD TV Media PLayer WDBPUF0000NBK-00’ today … same problem!

  2. If I remux an affected 24.000 fps MKV to M2TS the WD box works like a champ. Since there is no re-encoding by this it confirms that the WD TV Live box is principle able to display real 24.000 FPS MKVs but is doing something wrong handling the MKV container format.

  3. Forcing users to remux movies to M2TS is not an option (at least for me) since I do not invest time for obvious buggy HW to circumvent such issues. I spent more time with WD as with any other of my home entertain devices. So either this gets fixed or WD is ‘out’ here.

  4. For me MKV is a more general and open container format and can even be used for streaming. It belongs to the most popular media container formats … so for me absolut valid to expect full support from a media player.

JimKnopf wrote:
If you do not have a real 24.000 fps mkv you don’t have the problem but thanks for your suggestions.

I do have real 24.000 fps MKVs and I don’t have problems with all of them.

For not investing more time in this you keep posting a lot.

Hi Techflaws,

“It’s not over until the fat lady sings” means I’m still in hope to get some helpful feedback here until I decided how to replace the WDs. Perhaps a suggestion from someone who suffered from the same and found another solution on the market he/she can recommend.

You state, you don’t have the problem playing real 24.0 fps MKVs (which makes me very curious) I would like to know the used env. and settings at your side. Mine is

  • AV receiver is a Sony STR-DN840 (actual firmware, HDMI connected with the WD TV Live)

  • TV is a Panasonic TX-P42GTW60 (Plasma with actual firmware, HDMI connected with the Sony)

  • WD TV LIve Streaming G3 WDBGXT0000NBK-01 FW 2.02.32

  • WD TV Live setup:
    — Audio/Video Output -> Video output -> HDMI(Auto) (with ‘match video framerate’ set to ‘on’)
    — Audio/Video Output -> Aspect Ratio -> wide screen
    — Audio/Video Output -> Audio Output -> Digital-Pass-Through via HDMI only

JimKnopf wrote:
You state, you don’t have the problem playing real 24.0 fps MKVs (which makes me very curious)

I said I don’t have problems with all 24 FPS MKVs which suggests the muxing has something to do with it. However, despite  some extensive testing we haven’t been getting to the bottom of this other than finding the workaround of using M2TS for those files with micro judders. My WDTVs are attached to the TV with HDMI using the settings you’ve listed.