Hey guys quick question does this WDTV media box support 120Hz and 240Hz tv’s??? if it does is that in the new firmware update of 1.05??? I haven’t updated yet…
NO PLAYER does anything higher than 60Hz. HDMI specifications don’t allow for anything higher.
So, I think the answer you want is “Yes,” if you have a 120Hz or 240Hz TV, the WDs will still work fine.
The difference of 120Hz or 240Hz has nothing to do with FRAME RATE, that’s the Panel Refresh Rate. The TV itself does magic to do things with those extra “Hertzes.”
thanks “tony” for your quick response let me just recap. So your saying HDMI specificattions on the WD box doesn’t support(when you go into WD settings and choose 60Hz it won’t display 120Hz, or 240hz) 120hz and 240hz right??? just want to be clear on that because the HDMI cable Im using is a Monster THX $150 dollar cable that supports 120hz and 240 hz… So I guess your just talking specificaly about the WD media box HDMI specs right??? And yes I understand the WD media box will just decode to a lower Hertz if you have a newer TV.
No, I’m saying HDMI specs written by the HDMI Licensing Corporation don’t have such a thing has 240 Hz HDMI.
NOTHING sends 240 frames per second.
HDMI1.3 only supports 24, 30, 60p and 30 and 60i frame rates (plus others for PAL countries.)
HDMI1.4a, the latest specification, documents slightly higher frame rates (to something like 75)
Monster cable doesn’t say anything on their webpage about 240 Hz capable cables… I’d love to have an argument with them about it, because NOTHING manufactured today uses that kind of framerate.
I won’t get into how *ANY* $150 HDMI cable is an incredible rip-off.
*** NO HDMI CABLE *** supports 240 Hz frame rates. Anything that claims otherwise is an outright lie, because such specifications don’t exist. ANYWHERE.
I think you are confusing FRAME RATE versus REFRESH RATE.
A $150 cable. Makes my $5 cable look cheap. However it works just perfect so I can’t moan.
As Tony said its your TV that does the 120/240Hz thing and has nothing to do with the HDMI lead or the WDTV.
Yes I am talking only about refresh Rate so isn’t that what the WD media box settings asks you for ??? that’s the part I’m not sure about… The place where you go into 1080p settings and choose the Herz…(60hz is the most) I’m very happy for you and your 5 dollar cable “richUK” as long as it is in proper specs for your TV and it puts a smile on your face then so be it…Different strokes for different fokes i guess… Let me clear the air so people don’t think I’m buying expensive things for nothing. I have a 40 Inch Sony Bravia LCD 1080p 120hz TV , Onkyo Sr508 receiver 24 bit DTS HD Master audio , 5.1 PSB speakers and Sub , Monster HDP 2500 stage 3 Line Conditioner, all my Hdmi cables are monster,4 seagate external hard drives 2TB each, Rogers HD 4250 cable box with Rogers Extreme monthly Package, RG 6.0 rogers cable(Not RG 5.9 like most people) that runs from my circuit breaker all the way to my theatre room and connects to the Monster HDP line conditioner,then outputs to my HD Rogers box, also Got Rogers to come and put a booster outside of my house to increase the signal strength (RF parameters currently at +8db most people at -5db or 0db) and last the Western digital Media player. Have in Mind all the equipment I mentioned are connected to my HDP 2500 stage 3 Monster Line conditioner and I am using monster speaker cable for my speakers and sub. Really the weakest link in this chain of set up I hate to say is the WD media box. I’m not complaining about it I’m just trying to get more familiar with it so if it doesn’t meet my expectations in the future Im just going to by a computer with a proper sound card and graphics card(DTS Hd master audio bitreaming, i7 processor and 1080p Res) and substitute it for the western digital media player (hoping they can fix that LPCM issue) I will not give up on this WD product I have some faith in it and also recommended it to 4 family members. Anyway Im sure people have a much better set up than me out there but this is pretty **bleep** good for now and I’m also content with other people buying 5 dollars for an hdmi cable so no worries. The cable I bought was a little extreme but Im thinking of buying a new Pioneer Elite Plasma so I need a cable in proper specs. This has been a great forum for me so far thanks guys…
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=4886 Monster HDP stage 3 Line Conditioner
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3847 Monster cable 240hz/480hz Refresh Rate 17.8Gbps
http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR508&class=Receiver&p=i Onkyo sr508 receiver
http://www.buddygreggparts.com/products/9777-12-rg-6-cablewthr-prf-conn.aspx RG 6 Cable (thicker than RG
5 cables and better insulation)
This article provides some good background on how the 120Hz and 240Hz tv’s work- http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2379206,00.asp
It also highlights some of the undesirable side affects these TV’s display. Though it is less critical than some articles I have read. Some articles even recommend turning these higher rates off if you are watching media that are sourced from movies or television programs.
But to sum it up, these TV’s do not take input signals at these higher frequencies (well they can’t because there is no way to feed them). They take their input signals at industry standard rates (24, 25, 30, 50, 60) and then perform various interpolations to synthesize intermediate frames to display at the higher rates. It seems that some people like the results and others don’t.
No, the WDTV box is setting the FRAME RATE, not the REFRESH RATE. REFRESH is ONLY applicable to the PANEL, not the media source. FRAME RATE is only applicable to the MEDIA SOURCE, not the panel. They are two totally separate, unrelated terms.
If you have a 240Hz TV, and you set the WDTV to 60p output, then your TV is just taking each frame the upstream player is sending it and displaying it 4 times before the next frame is displayed. If you set the WDTV to 24p, your TV displays each frame 10 times before the next one. There are even 600Hz TVs out there.
If you enable features on your TV like what LG calls TruMotion, then the TV takes each successive frame, interpolates the motion, and smooths it out on each of the sucessive 9 additional frames on a 240Hz panel. On a 600 Hz panel, 24p would yield 25 repeated frames per original frame.
Some people like the “Trumotion” type effects. I, personally, cannot stand it, because it makes pictures look FAKE. It AMAZES me how many people SCREAM about media devices that don’t do 24p, and then talk about how they’re using TRUMOTION on their displays! The latter completely undoes the advantage of the former.
But NO media device (streamer, BD player, etc. etc) sends more than 60 frames per second.
You *REALLY* need to get a grasp on these technologies, because it sounds like you’re overspending for functionality that you don’t need, nor likely ever will given the short life of HDMI (the HDMI products we’re familiar with probably won’t exist for another 5 years or so (just a guess), there’s already a different standard using different connector types that’s becoming more common.)
So by the time my Amazon $6.99 basic HDMI cable doesn’t support the new hardware, the new hardware won’t be using HDMI anyway! And though the really HIGH end monster cables have a “Cable for Life” guarantee, you’d have to replace your cable more than 10 times under that program before you save any money.
I don’t blame you for being confused about HDMI.
The HDMI Licensing authority beginning this year has banned cable manufacturers from stating things like “HDMI 1.3 compliant” or “…1.4a compliant.” So companies like Monster resort to making meaningless claims like “recommended for 240Hz TVs.”
Well, *ANY* functional HDMI compliant cable, including the $2.00 Tiawanese cables on eBay will work on a 240Hz TV (or a 600Hz TV, or a 1200Hz TV, or a 1000000 Hz TV.) because REFRESH RATE has NOTHING to do with HDMI specifications.
Even the cheap little Amazon Basics HDMI cable supports ALL of the HDMI specifications published today. And it costs $15. They just can’t say “HDMI 1.4c compliant” because of the HDMI corporation’s new policy. Instead they have to publish WHICH PARTS of the standard they support, so Amazon says “HDMI High-Speed cable with Ethernet.”
So Amazon’s cable supports the HIGHEST specification, and Monsters does NOT, even though it costs 10 times the price. (At least, I see no mention of Ethernet support on Monster’s HDMI cables web page…)
In addition, the WDTV specifications also say things like “HDMI 1.3” or “HDMI 1.4” depending on the product, but even THAT has to go away beginning next year. Again, they must now start publishing which PORTIONS of the specification they include, such as the maximum resolution, frame rate, audio return, 3D, colorspace, etc. etc.
See the HDMI specification in layman’s terms here:
http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/buying_guide.aspx
So, in short, you will not be able to buy ANY consumer device that does higher than 60p (like the WDTVs do.) Because that’s the highest frame rate ALLOWED under HDMI specifications.
thanks “tony” for your explanation on the Hdmi specs I need to research that some more and get back to you soon but I for sure trust your word. Putting the hdmi cables aside for a second Everything else I bought for my theatre system I think is necessary like for example the Monster stage 3 line conditioner. Reason to protect your equipment from signal spikes from Rogers end and also filtering your power. you have to agree that if you have at least 10 or more ac adapters coming from various electronic equipment like drives, TV’s, receivers, media players etc and you hook all of those up to a regular power bar which then connects to your 120v outlet you will definitely get back feed noise which will change the ouput voltage of what your equipment isn’t suppose to run at. For example 125v to 130v outlet voltage would be considered unclean power which can effect your TV’s resolution or even the sound of speakers. With the Monster Line conditioner I bought there is a designated filter for each circuit of analog , digital, audio, and video components. So it jusk makes sense that the cleaner your power you have is the better your equipment will work its just simple electronics 101.(should always be 120v) I have a fluke meter(digital Multimeter) from Ontario hydro where I worked for 1 year and I can test any output voltage just like I would for troubleshooting any electronic device at work. Voltage is a main issue. Listen to this, One of my coworkers a few years ago had his flat screen and some of his audio equipment zapped from a Rogers signal spike and toasted his out of warranty equipment. I think the line conditioner is a good investment if you ask me. the other hook up I did with the RG 6 cable is now the current standard for new homes and Rogers cable and RG 5.9 is out of spec. Rogers is not allowed by code to install RG 5.9 in new homes, why becasue RG 6.0 can produce better resolution and sound that can change your RF parameters tuner and I’ve seen it with my own eyes. I mean what can I say ??? some people like myself want cutting edge technology or electronics it’s just to max out the potential of High Definition Experience and I don’t see anything wrong with that. Lets get off topic here because you mentioned something about waiting for the next hdmi technology and it’s possibly going to change in about 5 years. Where do you draw the line in waiting for something else to come that’s even better than another 5 years a faster and newer device works better than my older stuff. And “I just bought 4 external hard drives for my system” but hold on I should just wait till solid state drives come out at a cheaper price" you have to draw the line somewhere and buy something current that is half descent spend some bucks and just be happy with. Technology keeps changing fast. … thats just my 2 cents
tony the link below is from the Monster site and its the same Monster cable I bought and it says" high speed cable with Ethernet" right beside the 17.8Gbps… Hey just curious about that link you sent me explaining the Hdmi theory… what are the speeds of each of those hdmi cable standards??? from what I know the higher the speeds of an hdmi cable would generally mean more bandwidth which than would lead for more information to travel through that cable… agree???
Line voltage variations don’t affect digital transmission the same way they do analog.
But even on the analog side, all moderately-priced consumer audio/video electronics have voltage regulation on the DC side of their power supply, so variations in AC have only insignificant effect on the internals or downstream devices.
The “need” to have individual line voltage isolation is just another huge marketing “load.”
Yes, a surge suppressor / spike arrestor is a great idea. I use a UPS on my equipment to protect against voltage transients, and my whole house is protected by a load-center-based surge suppressor.
There’s no such thing as RG5.9, nor is there such thing as RG6.0 . It’s RG59, and RG6. RG59 is not an “earlier version” or inferior form of RG6 as you imply. RG59 and RG6/U are simply two different specifications for a coaxial cable. Just like Cat3 and Cat6a are for twisted pair cables. It just refers to the construction, materials, specifications and capabilities.
To carry the analogy, using Cat6a (meant for 10-Gigabit Ethernet) when Cat5e (meant for 1-Gigabit Ethernet) or Cat5 (meant for 100-megabit Ethernet) or Cat3 (meant for 10-Megabit Ethernet) is a waste of money. The same applies to RG59 versus RG6. The waste isn’t extreme because the cost differences in the specs aren’t much different.
RG6 absolutely DOES NOT allow for “Better resolution and sound.” That is ABSOLUTE BULL EXCREMENT. If that’s what Rogers told you, then Rogers has lied to you.
RG6 *can* supply overall higher spectrum bandwidth over longer distances with lower attenuation at higher frequencies, and a wider spectrum, but bandwidth does NOT change RESOLUTION when we’re talking about BROADBAND (which we are.) Man, that’s just INSANE.
What higher bandwidth allows for is a larger number of CHANNELS. The ATSC has already defined standards for what a channel can carry, and changing the cable type has absolutely NO BEARING on what a channel can carry and what it can’t.
RG6 might be able to carry 150 digital channels whereas RG59 might only be able to carry 140 over the same distances. But ALL of those channels can be used at FULL HD resolution and multiple 5.1 audio tracks. Even my example is flawed, because where both of these cables are used (in the house itself) those short distances can carry just about ANYTHING that is delivered.
Cable companies know this… Cable companies are NOT REQUIRING RG6 cable inside the house to make their systems work correctly because that would eliminate about 70% of their subscriber base that have RG59 in the walls. Sure, for NEW installs, go with the longest-life cable you can because of the huge expense of replacing it later.
The only thing I know of that REQUIRES RG6/U cable is digital satellite TV because of the very high frequency RF that comes from the antennae down to the set top box. But even then, for shorter distances (like less than 150 feet or something like that) RG59 works just as well.
Where do you draw the line in waiting for something else to come.
I, too, draw the line in what is available “RIGHT NOW.” If I waited for the next best thing, I’d never have anything. That’s why I buy $8 HDMI cables, because when the next best thing comes around, I have no problem throwing it away. If I bought a $150 cable in a fleeting attempt to “Futureproof” my cable plant, I sure would be disappointed in tossing THAT in the bin!
Sure, Monster offers the Lifetime Guarantee to replace it if the specifications don’t meet the new requirements, but the amount of work required to file a claim and wait for a replacement, for me, ADDS cost to the cable.
Oh, and thanks for the link to that cable. I didn’t see that one on their summary page.
Im sorry tony luv you buddy but rogers did Not lie to me I was right there with the technician and I even called my father to come over who is a 35 years electrical engineer and we went into our Rogers setting box with the Rogers technician and displayed the menu for RF parameters and the tuner settings(the main signal for the cable to our house) was -2dbm with the old rg 59 cable and then took 3 hours to install the new r 6 cable from the circuit breaker where the Rogers box is directly set up to the hd Rogers box. then went back to the Rogers box rf parameters menu and the tuner displayed +15dbm. So your telling me that’s bull ???.. Ok Einstein I’ve been pretty cool on this forum talking to people with respect but it seems your speaking with theoretically incorrect explanations only as opposed to someone actually physical trying something out and finding a good solution And to top it off having a bit of an echo issue … People on this forum im sure want physical proof and truth to back that up not just “im right your wrong” ego trips. I’ll admit when I’m wrong when I’m wrong but I will also be honest as well. SO YOUR 120% theoretically wrong. I don’t even think you know how to check your signal on your Rogers box explain that to me??? whats your RF tuning signal.??? are you even with Rogers??? serously what is your job title ???
Dirk, I’m not calling *YOU* a liar. Don’t misunderstand. I am not trying to offend you. I’m saying the things that people have told you are wrong.
So, read on if you like.
… and the tuner displayed +15dbm. So your telling me that’s bull ???
No, I’m not telling you THAT is bull. That’s a whole different thing than what you said before.
The most likely cause for a 17dBm difference in signal strength was replacing the dirty or damaged cables and connectors. I would darn near guarantee you that if he’d replaced all the cables and connectors but used RG59, the gain would have been about the same, if not about only about 3dBm different.
WIthout knowing exactly what that technician was measuring, saying there’s a 17dBm gain isn’t going to mean anything useful.
Here’s a website that describes what I’m talking about:
http://www.net-comber.com/cable-loss.html
At the top of the form, plug in the number 150. That’ll be in feet. That’s probably the most extreme length of cable anyone is likely to encounter in a normal home.
Hit CALC.
Now scroll down to the lines for 1000 MHz. That’s near the highest frequency allowed by ATSC standard for cable TV.
Note the difference in attenuation between RG59 and RG6 cables on the left side (which is the FEET side.) It’s only 2.33dB. Now those are comparing RG6/U and RG59/U, not 6 and 9, but the results would be very similar.
So a 17dBm difference is explained more likely by dirty or damaged cables, NOTHING having to do with RG59 vs RG6.
That’s not theory, that’s fact.
Here’s more data that validates what I’m saying.
http://www.cabletronix.com/pdf/Loss%20Chart.pdf
http://www.northamericancable.com/techinfo/clc.asp
etc.
At any rate, I’m not arguing about signal strength. Your earlier post said rogers told you that RG6 will give you better resolution and sound. That’s just untrue. 17dBm higher signal is not going to give you better resolution and sound.
…and in a digital system, relative signal strength is not all that important anyway. The signal only needs to be strong enough to cross the receiver’s threshold. Once it’s strong enough that the receiver can tell the difference between a 0 and a 1, that’s all that matters. It doesn’t need to be any stronger. And a stronger signal ABOVE the threshold doesn’t make it “better.” In fact, on any system, if it’s TOO strong, you “saturate” the receiver and it will begin to have decoding errors.
Us TiVo Gen3 owners fought Verizon tooth-and-nail with this about 2 years ago. Verizon injected such a hot signal into the coax that, since it’s only about 40 feet away from the receiver (as opposed to MILES from a CATV head-end) that TiVo boxes were unable to cope with the hot signal. Channels in certain frequency bands were worthless. TiVo had to upgrade firmware on the digital receiver to fix that.
Oh. And Einstein didn’t deal in RF engineering. He was a theoretical phsysist. *HE* dealt in theory. 
By the way, to keep things straight here, you were mentioning the results were in dBm. That’s an absolute measurement baselined to 1 milliwatt. 0dBm = 1 mW. ATSC receivers required to support a signal strength between -83dBm to -5dBm. Anything above -5dBm is considered an OVERLOAD, so I’m surprised a +15dBm signal didn’t blow your receiver apart! :smileyvery-happy: The attenuation chart referenced above is dB (which is unitless.)
What exactly has this tirade to do with the capabilities of the WD TV Live. If you want to discuss the pros and cons of cable wiring then I would suggest you go over here- http://www.dslreports.com/
Yeah, it did kinda take a tangent, didn’t it! :smileyvery-happy:
