Why can't Live Plus play this m4v file?

Any help here would be appreciated.  My Live Plus plays any file I throw at it – except for this one I recently created.  Everything else I have available can play it, e.g. VLC, Quicktime, WMP. RealPlayer, my Roku and even streamed to an iPad it plays    The Live Plus trys to play it, gives up, and screen returns to the drive’s file list.

Here is the MediaInfo data

General

Complete name                            : C:\Users\Mike\Videos\iPad Movies\Tom Rush - Live at Symphony Hall on 12-28-12_pt2.m4v

Format                                   : MPEG-4

Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2

Codec ID                                 : mp42

File size                                : 2.36 GiB

Duration                                 : 1h 13mn

Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable

Overall bit rate                         : 4 615 Kbps

Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-12-30 02:35:16

Tagged date                              : UTC 2012-12-30 04:00:42

Writing application                      : pavtube version 0

Video

ID                                       : 1

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : Baseline@L1.3

Format settings, CABAC                   : No

Format settings, ReFrames                : 1 frame

Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=12

Codec ID                                 : avc1

Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding

Duration                                 : 1h 13mn

Bit rate mode                            : Variable

Bit rate                                 : 4 000 Kbps

Width                                    : 1 280 pixels

Height                                   : 720 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Frame rate mode                          : Constant

Frame rate                               : 30.080 fps

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.144

Stream size                              : 2.04 GiB (86%)

Writing library                          : x264 core 120

Encoding settings                        : cabac=0 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=dia / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=4 / chroma_me=0 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=0 / keyint=12 / keyint_min=7 / scenecut=0 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=12 / rc=abr / mbtree=1 / bitrate=4000 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.50 / qpmin=3 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=3 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-12-30 02:35:16

Tagged date                              : UTC 2012-12-30 04:00:42

Audio #1

ID                                       : 2

Format                                   : AAC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec

Format profile                           : LC

Codec ID                                 : 40

Duration                                 : 1h 13mn

Bit rate mode                            : Variable

Bit rate                                 : 165 Kbps

Maximum bit rate                         : 205 Kbps

Channel(s)                               : 2 channels

Channel positions                        : Front: L R

Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz

Compression mode                         : Lossy

Stream size                              : 86.2 MiB (4%)

Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-12-30 02:35:16

Tagged date                              : UTC 2012-12-30 04:00:42

Audio #2

ID                                       : 3

Format                                   : AC-3

Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3

Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)

Format settings, Endianness              : Big

Codec ID                                 : ac-3

Duration                                 : 1h 13mn

Bit rate mode                            : Constant

Bit rate                                 : 448 Kbps

Channel(s)                               : 6 channels

Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE

Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz

Bit depth                                : 16 bits

Compression mode                         : Lossy

Stream size                              : 234 MiB (10%)

Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-12-30 02:35:16

Tagged date                              : UTC 2012-12-30 04:00:42

The title says “Part2.”  Is there a part 1?  If so, does it play correctly?

Wow.  Now that I look at it, there’s all kinds of “suspicious” things about the file.

Profile:  Baseline@L1.3

Width                                    : 1 280 pixels

Height                                   : 720 pixels

That’s a pretty low profile number.   Strictly speaking, Baseline@L1.3 doesn’t support more than 352×288 resolution … yet that video is 1280x720.

The lowest profile that supports 1280x720 is L3.1.  

Frame rate                               : 30.080 fps

That’s rather odd.  30.08?  Should be some normal thing like 30.000 or 29.976 if it was broadcast video.

  e title says “Part2.”  Is there a part 1?  If so, does it play correctly?

Yes, a pt 1, no, doesn’t play.  Same story with Part 1; everything but the Live Plus can play it.

I made this m4v file by first recording a Livestream live broadcast using RealPlayer.   I ended up with two flv files pt.1&2 (which by the way, the Live Plus can play).  Using a newer program I have from Pavtube called Pavtube Blu-ray Video Converter Ultimate, I converted the flv file into an m4v file for the iPad to play.  The Live Plus can play other m4v files made with this program – just not these two.  They are both fairly large files – could that be the issue?

The file sizes are fine.   I think it’s an encode issue.

See the post directly above yours.

It’d also be interesting to see the mediainfo of the original FLV file, as well as the mediainfo for a similarly converted file that’s playing fine.

   It’d also be interesting to see the mediainfo of the original FLV file, as well as the mediainfo for a similarly converted file that’s playing fine.

I though you might ask for this, so I’ll get 'em prepared and send them in a moment or so.  Thanks for the assist.

@Tony

MediaInfo of originally recorded flv file:

General

Complete name                            : C:\Users\Mike\Videos\RealPlayer Downloads\Tom Rush\Tom Rush - Live at Symphony Hall on 12-28-12_pt2.flv

Format                                   : Flash Video

File size                                : 1.16 GiB

Duration                                 : 1h 13mn

Overall bit rate                         : 2 279 Kbps

Encoded date                             : 2012.12.28-19:29:41

_author                                  : 2330132

_copyright                               : Producer 0.0.54

_broadcasting_app                        : Producer 0.0.54

_operation_system                        : Windows 7 Home Premium Edition Service Pack 1 (build 7601), 32-bit

_presetname                              : Custom

_title                                   : Producer stream

_videodevice                             : Producer Video

_videokeyframe_frequency                 : 2.000

_audiodevice                             : Producer Audio

_audioinputvolume                        : 100.000

_streamIdentifier                        : E78BA4

_session                                 : AQBi98hZuDOfDu1e3lDqxquZ2GeUBEExKFYtYcFcr1cs0jloDJ8VkMpB1j778SgqBpPG9eqX

_tat                                     : 13932.025

_dvrWindow                               : -1.000

_timeBase                                : 13931.633

_timeOfLastTAT                           : 1356754946.923

_streamType                              : 3.000

_streamStartTime                         : 1356741014.076

_liveDelay                               : 14.000

_isLive                                  : Yes

_switchFail                              : No

_streamName                              : 2330132_1760753_30ad1da3_1_2320@96654

_transferToken                           : f7n11X4J

_edgeVersion                             : 6.9.4.2

_edgeIP                                  : 184.51.159.14

_playerIP                                : 98.247.200.89

_status                                  : 3.000

Video

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : Main@L4.1

Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes

Format settings, ReFrames                : 1 frame

Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=60

Codec ID                                 : 7

Duration                                 : 1h 13mn

Bit rate                                 : 2 000 Kbps

Width                                    : 1 280 pixels

Height                                   : 720 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Frame rate mode                          : Constant

Frame rate                               : 30.000 fps

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.072

Stream size                              : 1.02 GiB (88%)

Audio

Format                                   : AAC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec

Format profile                           : LC

Codec ID                                 : 10

Duration                                 : 1h 13mn

Bit rate                                 : 320 Kbps

Channel(s)                               : 2 channels

Channel positions                        : Front: L R

Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz

Compression mode                         : Lossy

Delay relative to video                  : 5ms

Stream size                              : 167 MiB (14%)

  -------------------------------------------------------------------------

MediaInfo of another video recorded from Livestream (but not as a live broadcast) and recorded as flv and converted to m4v using same programs.  The Live Plus can play this m4v.

General

Complete name                            : W:\Videos\iPad Movies\The Fish Story Song by Tom Rush.m4v

Format                                   : MPEG-4

Codec ID                                 : M4V

File size                                : 31.2 MiB

Duration                                 : 2mn 50s

Overall bit rate                         : 1 535 Kbps

Movie name                               : The Fish Story Song, by Tom… on Fish Story Song

Writing application                      : Helix Producer SDK 11.1 for Windows, Build 11.1.0.2895

widt                                     : (Binary)

heig                                     : (Binary)

Video

ID                                       : 2

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : Main@L3.1

Format settings, CABAC                   : No

Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames

Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=24

Codec ID                                 : avc1

Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding

Duration                                 : 2mn 50s

Source duration                          : 2mn 50s

Bit rate                                 : 1 397 Kbps

Width                                    : 1 280 pixels

Height                                   : 720 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9

Frame rate mode                          : Variable

Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps

Minimum frame rate                       : 29.412 fps

Maximum frame rate                       : 30.303 fps

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.051

Stream size                              : 28.4 MiB (91%)

Source stream size                       : 28.4 MiB (91%)

mdhd_Duration                            : 170404

Color primaries                          : BT.709

Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709

Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio

ID                                       : 1

Format                                   : AAC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec

Format profile                           : LC

Codec ID                                 : 40

Duration                                 : 2mn 50s

Source duration                          : 2mn 50s

Bit rate mode                            : Constant

Bit rate                                 : 128 Kbps

Channel(s)                               : 2 channels

Channel positions                        : Front: L R

Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz

Compression mode                         : Lossy

Stream size                              : 2.59 MiB (8%)

Source stream size                       : 2.59 MiB (8%)

mdhd_Duration                            : 170712

Notice the difference?  The one that can play is L3.1.   The one that doesn’t is L1.3.

Yes, I see the one that can play says:   Format profile       : Main@L3.1

The one that cannot play says:              Format profile       : Baseline@L1.3 

OK, this was the “easy” part to see, but what does this all mean in “English”?   

FYI: I took a look at some of the other playable m4v files I made from my DVD/ISO files using Handbrake, and the Format profile says High@L3.0 , High@L3.1 , High@L3.0 , High@L3.0 , High@L3.0  for the five I randomly checked.

Did my new program make some m4v files correctly and some incorrectly from flv files?

Apparently so…  Maybe it’s a setting that got messed up.

The “profile” is a set of “rules” the encode must live by.  Your non-working file is encoded with parameters that break the limitations imposed in the profile that is declared.

OK, thanks for the diagnosis, Doc.  It’s clear as mud to me, but I will try to make the files again (Sigh; it took a long time…)  If they are tubed again, I will write to Pavtube and demand my money back.   :wink:

Meanwhile, I will rest easy tonight when I go to bed knowing that if all else fails,  the live concert I recorded is coming out on DVD in a few months – so, problem with this video is “solved” – sorta…  The streamed video was marginal at best (we watched it live via iPad to TV – concept still not ready for prime time).  It was all a kind of an “experiment” of mine to record a live stream, anyway, but it would have been nice to see the resultant m4v work on the WD TV.

BTW, you never said anything about why the m4v could work with everything else I played it with, and on, and it was fine, but the WD barfed at it.  Any ideas why this happened?

Different players have different specifications and different tollerance for out-of-range conditions.

Thanks again, Tony.

For you and anyone else reading this, I did a little exploration last night that shed some light on all this.  I found this wikilink http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC that discusses the Profiles and different Levels of encoding. 

From what I understand, the m4v file the Live Plus could not play was encoded at at rather low Profile Level, therefore I would think it should play on the WD, but for some reason it doesn’t.  I’ll try to make another m4v the Live Plus can play. 

Thanks for the help, Mike

Tony,

I have new info about my problem m4v file I made – I made another using Handbrake this time and set to the iPad default settings as I have done with other videos I have made.  This one came out OK – it plays on the Live Plus and the iPad like all my other m4v files do.

Here is the MediaInfor data for it:

General

Complete name                            : C:\Users\Mike\Videos\iPad Movies\Tom Rush - Live At Symphony Hall On 12-28-12 Pt2-HB.m4v

Format                                   : MPEG-4

Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2

Codec ID                                 : mp42

File size                                : 1.31 GiB

Duration                                 : 1h 13mn

Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable

Overall bit rate                         : 2 560 Kbps

Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-01-10 22:34:18

Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-01-11 01:51:50

Writing application                      : HandBrake 0.9.8 2012071700

Video

ID                                       : 1

Format                                   : AVC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile                           : High@L3.1

Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes

Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames

Codec ID                                 : avc1

Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding

Duration                                 : 1h 13mn

Bit rate mode                            : Variable

Bit rate                                 : 2 396 Kbps

Width                                    : 1 280 pixels

Height                                   : 688 pixels

Display aspect ratio                     : 1.85:1

Original display aspect ratio            : 1.85:1

Frame rate mode                          : Variable

Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps

Minimum frame rate                       : 29.412 fps

Maximum frame rate                       : 30.303 fps

Color space                              : YUV

Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0

Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Scan type                                : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.091

Stream size                              : 1.22 GiB (94%)

Writing library                          : x264 core 120

Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=300 / keyint_min=30 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=3 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-01-10 22:34:18

Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-01-11 01:51:50

Color primaries                          : BT.709

Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709

Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio

ID                                       : 2

Format                                   : AAC

Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec

Format profile                           : LC

Codec ID                                 : 40

Duration                                 : 1h 13mn

Bit rate mode                            : Variable

Bit rate                                 : 159 Kbps

Maximum bit rate                         : 187 Kbps

Channel(s)                               : 2 channels

Channel positions                        : Front: L R

Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz

Compression mode                         : Lossy

Delay relative to video                  : 67ms

Stream size                              : 83.4 MiB (6%)

Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-01-10 22:34:18

Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-01-11 01:51:49