Special Release - Firmware Version 3.03.16 for WD TV Live Hub (4/4/12)

Did you try resetting the network wireless settings.  I’ve had to do that before.

Special Release doesn’t necessarily mean it contains something special it can also mean that it was released to fix a particular area.

This however wasn’t the only change in the firmware, there has been a major undocumented change for thumbnails/coverart. They are no longer compressed or cropped. Thumbnails are still archived in the thumb folder but they are now identical copies of source file which improves the display quality and opens a door for themers again.

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They should have called it a minor release! :wink:

@DeVicious

Thanks for bringing this out in the open…

Now I wonder why WD have not thought to do so in the release notes?? Strange…Hmmmm…I don’t wish to conjecture any further… Perhaps WD can enlighten us?

I’ll pass on download. I don’t watch MLB or any sports for that matter.

We keep saying the same thing every time firmware comes out… fix the simple things, stop adding new things for now.

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architectonic wrote:

 

Now I wonder why WD have not thought to do so in the release notes??

Pick your answer:

  1. This release was supposed to have just the MLB fix only. We didn’t mean to put that untested change in this release.

  2. We don’t know why those thumbnails broke in the first place and don’t know why they work now.

  3. We thought we’d toss a bone to the themers and others that have been complaining.

  4. Huh?

I was not going to update to this release since I don’t need MLB on this device. I “assumed” (knowing all that that means) that WD was diligently working on a “real” update that fixes multiple issues and this “Special” rush release of the MLB fix was a solo change due to the hard target deadline of MLB’s Opening Day. But if there are real changes (for the better this time) under the covers then I will update (hesitate to call it upgrade) today.

“Not Richard”

DeVicious wrote:

Special Release doesn’t necessarily mean it contains something special it can also mean that it was released to fix a particular area.

 

This however wasn’t the only change in the firmware, there has been a major undocumented change for thumbnails/coverart. They are no longer compressed or cropped. Thumbnails are still archived in the thumb folder but they are now identical copies of source file which improves the display quality and opens a door for themers again.

Nope, I’m stil seeing cropping &  thumbs are still being compressed at least for .png files.

Thumb file                                                                Actuall image

   

FW still converts .pngs to compressed .jpg images.  Jpgs are not compressed or cropped but this only opens the door if you were using jpg’s to begin with.  Without true .png support this still leaves you in the same boat.  Also the .png/.jpg extension trick still does not work.

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@ Tinwarble

Thanks for the heads up on this TW ! (I never bother with FW upgrade, I tend to just read other peoples findings- too lazy I suppose to rollback) :smileyvery-happy:

Not sure where DeVicious was coming from…?.. Perhaps she can clarify her findings? Hope so.

yuppicide wrote:

I’ll pass on download. I don’t watch MLB or any sports for that matter.

 

We keep saying the same thing every time firmware comes out… fix the simple things, stop adding new things for now.

Exactly

@architechtonic,

I believe Dev is coming from the issue of it happening with jpg’s. However, from what I could tell even with jpg’s it is still compressing the images because the HUB with the recent FW will still take the image that you have for your thumb and if it’s larger it will compress it for caching to the size(s) that you have in the view xml. It just seems to do a better job in compressing the image and the cropping issue for jpg’s at least have been addressed.

Png,'s though are a separate issue altogether. It is still taking true png’s and converting them to jpg images and it doesn’t handle those correctly, (still cropping) and png’s with the extension changed to jpg doesn’t display at all.

@ Tinwarble and Architectonic

JPG files do not get compressed, cropped or resized, I know this because I am working for 2 days on a new movie sheet solution and I have tested it with all kinds of dimensions. I tested this until i passed out.

It still makes puts images into the thumb folder with the dimensions in the name but in fact it is the source file.

I told this Joey the day the firmware was released, he found that too but said there are still alignment issues and of course PNGs arent working so he reverted his firmware back…

I am gonna upload you some files as they are generated in a bit

Now i tested it with a PNG and JPG

JPG remains the same and PNG gets resized and compressed like mad…

here are the actualy files, source file and generated files by the livehub

THUMB TEST DOWNLOAD

in order to open them you need to assign them to a program.

On another note I am wondering why we need PNGs with the recent developments…

TinWarble I am sure you can fill in the piece that I am missing.

with the mirror code and a diffusor and an overlay mask for rounded covers we can achieve the exact same result as with a transparent png.

I have never dealt with PNGs so I don’t know how they are generated but I would assume if they come with transparency they are at least 3 times the size per thumbnails as a native jpg image.

Again I want to stress the point that I have never tested this but based on common sense (which I don’t claim to have) the overall loading time is supposed to have a greater lag as with a jpg image. Let’s say it doesn’t and it takes the same time as with a PNG, why not using the new findings and make the thumbnails interchangangable with other themes and don’t have to get a sour stomach everytime they release a new firmware that doesn’t feature native png behavior.

Please fill me in that I can understand it.

call me crazy… but if the images in the Thumb folders are just renamed .jpg etc… what would happen if we manually replace those files with our own resized images…?

If this crazy idea works and the HUB decides NOT to replace them with its duffed up version then a simple program could be created to scan for the .jpgs in the movies and generate the thumbs…

Although not sure what sizes it creates from a quick scan it look very random sizes.

That’s actually worth a shot and especially for the PNG files.

Does any one have any news on when the next release of the firmware is due out? I am waiting for the Netflix update and the BBC iPlayer. I did updated to the latests release as soon as it came out and so far have not had any issues. All my videos still play, the music player still works and I can still access everything that I could before.

@DeVicious,

Well first, I’ll have to give you that it isn’t compressing/resizing jpgs.  I think that with my initial test my thumb files were not getting overwritten so some of the same resized thumbs were still being used.:dizzy_face:

However, as for why pngs over jpgs, first has to do with complexity.  If you use just a simple table to display the mirror then it’s not a problem using the mirror effect, but if you use a more complex table, or say a changing table where the moviesheet is generated on the table like Tarus 35 sheets (see HERE) then the mirror effect doesn’t work, at least not so that you can see through the reflection to see what is behind.  So you are locked into only being able to make certain themes where the table is simplistic.

Second, there is an issue with using the mirror effect where it does cause artifacting in the mirror image.  I know that this has been somewhat addressed, however, it still is less than acceptable and the solution causes a limitation as to the space that you can have between the image and the mirror and you don’t have this issue with png’s.

As for the lag time with pngs over jpgs, if you go back to older firmware, 2.07 and later, the lag time for jpgs and pngs are about the same for the same size original image.  There are more factors than just the file size of the image as to what causes the lag, such as how the images are cached.  And as that the newer firmware doesn’t allow for pngs to be displayed with the newer caching method it is unknown it the lag time is improved for pngs as well.  Remember this though, when you have no cover-art for you file the navtive default image is a png and there isn’t any lag.  This may not be the best example, because the default image is just a single image generated multiple times, but there really isn’t any reason why a png couldn’t be displayed without any lag or at least very little lag.

Also, just to say this, by using the mirror effect you are basically doubling the image size for you thumb anyway.  For every layer you add you are adding to the overall display size.

@ Tinwarble

first of all thanx for clearing that up for me…

as for the mirror effect and the possible lag, there is none as far as I can measure it but I agree it is more images to load in theory it should take longer as usual, it doesn’t but the loading process becomes more visible.

As for the design restrictions with JPG files, CHALLENGE ACCEPTED :laughing: (don’t get this the wrong way please, i don’t want to challenge you) I think it is doable with a more than just an acceptable result. The diffusor image fades out the movie sheet regardless what is on the sheet or how complex the table is. Of course it changeds the las 60 pixels of the sheet but the effect is still there and overlaying a mirror into a mirror is probably not the greatest idea anyways.

I totally understand why an PNG gives more freedom, I didn’t mean to ask that, I was just trying to encourage the idea of working around it as people really seem to love it and still can be on the newest firmware.

Kazgor made an interesting point earlier, he asked if the hub generated images (as substitute for the source png) can be overwritten with our own files? Has this been tested and would it work? If nobody tested it I sure will do that and see what can be done. It wouldn’t take much to create program that would generate copies of the source png and puts them into the thumb folder with the appropriate file name.

Well thanx for the reply I appreciate it, I hope they find a way soon to make everyone happy.

@DeVicious,

If I made it sound as though there would be a lag with the mirror effect I didn’t mean too.  I have tested this method and I’m aware that there’s really no lag.  My statement was more of a reply to your statement about png’s being a larger file than jpg’s and I meant to say that when you double the jpg for the mirror effect you still end up with an overall larger display size.  My meaning is that there shouldn’t be any more lag with one large image than it takes with displaying the same smaller sized image twice.

As for the reflections with jpg’s, personally I just don’t see the same quality as I do with png’s.   However, I’m not trying to discourage anyone from developing around the limitations and want everyone to do what ever they can to make better themes.  But I am more concerned in encouraging WD to give us better firmware without the needless limitations so that even better themes can be developed.   Good is never good enough and we shouldn’t just be happy with what we can “work around” especially when there is no hardware limitation from making it work.

Also as for Kazgor’s suggestion, if I remember correctly I don’t believe this will work.  From my previous tries you can’t just change the thumbs in the thumb folder to be something else.  The problem is that the thumb folder is not the only place the thumbs are cached because they are also cached in the internal memory.  And if I remember correctly, if you change the thumb in the thumb folder it will get overwritten by the internal thumb.

I installed the update and now when I play music, any music, with the screen saver on with my personal photos, the unit will reboot by itself after about 10 minutes and the media library recompiles.

If the media library hasn’t changed, why would it feel the need to recompile?

Any why does the Twonky Media Server checkbox never stay checked in the web GUI?

I have also had issues with a 3TB disk attached with the intention of storing all my movies and TV shows.  While this is possible, the GUI makes it unreasonable difficult to navigate through each and every show every time I want to scroll to something or the search feature is so slow it isn’t usable.

The key features, the reason I bought this, was it could take external disk and the DLNA server and neither of those work very well if at all.

This is a great product in theory, but I have had nothing but issues with it.  Are there plans to revamp the GUI and make this easier to navigate which larger libraries?

@ Tinwarble

I completely understood what you meant about the “mirror lag” I was just confirming it because I was thinking the same thing, on paper it should be way slower but it isn’t. :smiley: Since we are not alone here I thought I make it understandable what we are even talking about :laughing:

Regarding the reflection quality I would respectfully disagree. This obviously depends on how you do it and how good your photo shop skills are to create the flash images and masks, the result however will always be theme appropriate and goes with the flow which for me is the better quality as a movie sheet taking over the entire look. The reflection quality itself will not change, it doesnt matter if you fade out the thumbnail or lay an image that is identical with the background on top of it, in fact with the mirror technique you can soften and strengthen the effect as you wish in (let’s say) a re design of your theme on top of that your thumbnails remain compatible with other themes. I find that actually an advantage and I am sorry to disagree.

Where I fully agree again is that we should not have to work around it, I can see no good reason but warranty concerns (could be totally wrong) in order to bring down the memory load. However if I had the freedom today to choose I would still use the mirror effect for the cmpatibility reason alone, not because I want them to use my stuff because I don’t want them to go through the pain of creating new thumbnails for each theme. :smiley: