New firmware WHEN?

It’s clear the latest firmware is full of bugs, and it’s been months since its release. When the new (hopefully) bug free firmware will  be released?

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I think Wd want to test first the latest firmware and then they will release it.1.05.04 is full of bugs.It means the nobody test if to see if there is new bugs.They just add some internet applications and then they release it.Lets hope Wd not make again a mistake like this.We must wait for something good.Wd devs mustnt know anything about wd live player.They learn it now.

hi

  • hope your are right

regards

pawson

it is getting pretty ridiculous. Been waiting for a decent firmware to get released for a long time. I’ve had the WDTV Live since it was first released and have yet to get a firmware upgrade that hasn’t been messed up.

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Unless you are nearing the end of your life, 2 months (since the last update) does not seem like a LONG TIME.

I would prefer to be patient and wait for a good stable version. Though I must say that I have not had many problems with the last few releases.

doesn’t seem like a long time? … Its probably the most flawed firmware they have ever released

parnott100 wrote:

… Though I must say that I have not had many problems with the last few releases.

Then you are not among the users with 4:3 or 16:9 CRT TV still using composite or component signal wires. All these cannot use the last firmware by known problems. I got  my WD TV Live nearly a year ago as a present … and in my eyes it’s still not ready for market since such basic features do not work stable and as expected.

Providing a more frequent firmware update within a  beta program, fixing only a few problems and wait for the customer feedback would be much more efficient than the current strategy.

These current long periods between the new firmware updates let grow the end user expectation to such level that you cannot satisfy them in any way. Also the concept of the idea forum/lab increases the end user dissatisfaction since it raised the expectation of us but only a few items have been chosen to be implemented till now.

With that experience, I wouldn’t buy a WDC product anymore. The WD TV live does not have real key differentiators anymore comparing to other multimedia players.

My 2 cents, greetings from Germany,

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Providing a more frequent firmware update within a  beta program

Just FYI, go read the threads from last year when WD *DID* do public betas.

It wasn’t pretty.  They caught more FLACK from people then, than they are now…  I don’t blame them for shutting down the common betas…

PUBLIC beta is/was the problem, here. Instead of building a small private user group for the betas where each/few of them is/are the representative(s) for s special user class using a special devices like Video HDMI, composite, component, optical digital audio, network shares, usb media, etc. WDC bombed a beta with a few fixes and new features but even more bugs to the public … and wonders why more and more people starts crying.

Why not first start a beta for a few enthusiastic people in private, get their feedback (communication then is fast and small), fix the errors based on their feedback and then make the next public version? For the end user it’s better to get a more frequent firmware update with only a small number of fixes and new features but a stable one instead of being confrontrated with a version with a lot of changes but also a lot of new problems/issues?

The current awkward situation providing nearly every composite and component user with internet access on every system start with a new available firmware which these users should not install to prevent aspect ratio issues, is nearly a worst case scenario in my eyes if a company is really interested in customer satisfaction.

How do you know that is NOT going on?

TonyPh12345 wrote:

How do you know that is NOT going on?

By the bad quality of 1.05.04_V, a beta tester with a 4:3 or 16:9 CRT using composite and/or component would have experienced the problem at once. If there is a private beta group, CRT users seem not to be represented there.

JimKnopf wrote:

PUBLIC beta is/was the problem, here. Instead of building a small private user group for the betas where each/few of them is/are the representative(s) for s special user class using a special devices like Video HDMI, composite, component, optical digital audio, network shares, usb media, etc. WDC bombed a beta with a few fixes and new features but even more bugs to the public … and wonders why more and more people starts crying.

 

Why not first start a beta for a few enthusiastic people in private, get their feedback (communication then is fast and small), fix the errors based on their feedback and then make the next public version? For the end user it’s better to get a more frequent firmware update with only a small number of fixes and new features but a stable one instead of being confrontrated with a version with a lot of changes but also a lot of new problems/issues?

 

The current awkward situation providing nearly every composite and component user with internet access on every system start with a new available firmware which these users should not install to prevent aspect ratio issues, is nearly a worst case scenario in my eyes if a company is really interested in customer satisfaction.

 

I concur with Jim’s recommendation, and I personally have participated in these beta reviews.  For example, Synology (the maker of my NAS) does this, and currently is running a beta for the next release of their NAS OS.  The way it works is that they advertise on their forum that those interested sign up and agree to the terms (typical of betas; ie., that they know it’s a beta and it may cause problems, and that they exercise the software and report bugs, etc.).  Once they have signed up, they are provided access to the code and access to the forum location for posting and sharing bug reports.  They also offer prizes to those who catch and report the most bugs.  Many other major companies do this as well and I have participated in some of them; Logitech, Microsoft, just to name a couple more.

I think what’s clear here is the WD probably is doing “some” limited testing but clearly not enough.  With so many possible configurations of TV’s and audio equipment, it makes even more sense that they do a public beta, or limited public beta such as what I described above.  I believe doing so will pay dividends in the end for both WD and its users.

Is there a new line of products coming out? It does seem like it has been a while since the last firmware update and the WD staff appear to be unusually quiet on the forums as of late. I wonder if a new line of TV Live models are coming?

mu51c10rd wrote:

Is there a new line of products coming out? It does seem like it has been a while since the last firmware update and the WD staff appear to be unusually quiet on the forums as of late. I wonder if a new line of TV Live models are coming?

We wouldn’t know until they hit the Best Buy shelves a week before WD officially announces the new products.

We can guess, but that’d be all it is… guesses.

Sigma has some new nifty chips, either out now or out soon, so it’s certainly possible that WD is working on a new wonderbox already, based around one of Sigma’s newest efforts, but even that’s pure speculation and meaningless… the next product (if there is one) could still be based around the same chips that everything else WD offers is.

On the one hand, the new Sigma chips have some sweet specs, but on the other hand, the one is a whole new family of chips and a whole new SDK, so WD would be starting from scratch in developing something around it.

Even though at some point WD will have to break away from their current chipset, it is familiar ground and any new product isn’t guaranteed to have a processor upgrade, because there’s safety in sticking with familiarity.

We can certainly urge WD to move to the advanced processors for a new box, but at the end of the day, any move is WD’s call. :wink:

I’ve had a WDTVLIVE+ for some time now and with this new update the ONLY issue I have right now is viewing pics and stuff on FB…saying cant support the media…which is whatever, I can get on the COMP to see but still it needs to be fixed.  The way things are looking, I think I’m going to jump ship and get a roku for the living room and this wdtv for the bedroom.  I was happy at first with the product, but over time, I have lost my love for it. Maybe if they fix it soon, it will spark up again.

fingers crossed in Orange County, CA

tjkaz wrote:


JimKnopf wrote:

PUBLIC beta is/was the problem, here. Instead of building a small private user group for the betas where each/few of them is/are the representative(s) for s special user class using a special devices like Video HDMI, composite, component, optical digital audio, network shares, usb media, etc. WDC bombed a beta with a few fixes and new features but even more bugs to the public … and wonders why more and more people starts crying.

 

Why not first start a beta for a few enthusiastic people in private, get their feedback (communication then is fast and small), fix the errors based on their feedback and then make the next public version? 


I concur with Jim’s recommendation, and I personally have participated in these beta reviews. 

I made a similar suggestion in the IDEAS forum a while back but didn’t see much traction.  DirecTV works with a select group of users on DBSTalk’s “Cutting Edge” forum to privately beta test new builds.  They pound away at them prior to any widespread distribution.  Works pretty well.

http://community.wdc.com/t5/Live-Live-Plus-Ideas/Invite-WD-Community-into-Beta-Testing/idi-p/194800

Of course you do all remember what happened with the last betas, right?  When WD was trying to address specific HDMI issues with specific display devices?

Despite the testers being specifically asked not to distribute certain releases, they were widely available within minutes of WD releasing them, and what WD needed to be tested wasn’t being tested – people were just downloading them because they didn’t want to re-mux their illegal downloads.

The community has shown WD that they can’t be trusted… if WD is considering adding new features/options, you expect the community to keep it under wraps?  Not gonna happen.  And “So what?”, you may ask… but what if WD decides/has to drop something?  Then you get nothing but screaming that it was in the beta but didn’t make it to final release, and you get folks trying to scrounge up the beta (which could have known issues) just so they can be the one to have something that’s never going to see the light of day.  If it bricks their box, people will be screaming for the heads of those in charge.

Most folks aren’t interested in testing specific issues… look at the >2TB drive issues… until it was fixed, did anyone really want to be putting their own data at risk, to see if a patch worked or if drives were still being corrupted?  Of course not… folks just wanted a working patch.  If betas had been released, either publicly or privately, WD would have accomplished absolutely nothing, because no actual testing would be undertaken.

So, any fixes WD might have worked out (or think they’ve worked out), would be available a tiny bit “sooner” to a beta group, but what input WD would actually be looking for, they wouldn’t be getting.

WD can test a 4:3 patch in-house as well as a beta group can… WD can test a “shuffle” patch as well as a beta group can.  The patches either work, or they don’t.

Sure, it’d be nice to get a fix a week or two early, but I can certainly see why WD isn’t just plastering betas up left, right and center.

RoofingGuy wrote:

WD can test a 4:3 patch in-house as well as a beta group can… WD can test a “shuffle” patch as well as a beta group can.  The patches either work, or they don’t.

Well, carefully reading your post, I try to understand your point … but can’t agree upon at all. Sure, in the past a LOT of things went wrong but it is not the concept of doing public/private betas which is the fault but instead the way these were implemented.

To believe that developers are able to test their own products with the same quality like a 3rd party is against any software test and verification method I know. Instead of whining here how cruel the community was handling provided firmware stuff not intended to be public, WDC should ask itsself why other companies like i.e… Synology or Dream Multimedia are successful with such concepts, why these communities are so enthusiastic and helpful.

So, any finger-pointing to the community (you really need) and to continue this unacceptable way of providing buggy firmware and NOT reacting on obvious hard bugs EVEN AFTER MONTHS will not change the situation but hopefully the market will solve that for WD since once the image is damaged (and in my eyes it is) the customers (like me) will focus on products without such drawbacks. It’s up to WDC to change things, not the community!

You’re talking about 2 different things, tho, Jim…

The reason companies use 3rd-party testing is to have a wide base of cases… to find oddball things that don’t show up in every case.  (And there’s no reason to presume WD isn’t doing this – they just may not be doing enough of it.)

But the fixes everyone is screaming for, like the subtitle/audio text and such, affect all devices under all conditions… a larger test group is irrelevant.  You’re presuming that WD didn’t know there were these bugs.  I’m on the opposite side of the coin, guessing that WD already knew about them prior to release – so I’m not seeing how even more people telling them of a known issue accomplishes anything new, other than consumes time that could be better spent doing other things.

But, especially with WD’s release schedule/history, I’m still not seeing how largish public betas would help more than hinder the whole process… your mileage may vary.

Sure, their testing is under scrutiny, but the issue of this thread is how often they release fixes (which appears to be ONLY when major revisions are ready, and not when individual fixes are ready).  Larger beta groups won’t change the timeframes for when major revisions are ready… it will only mean a few folks will get the new release a week or two early.

You’re right, we’re talking about 2 different things, RoofingGuy.

While you assume WD already knows about existing bugs and whether it is meaningful to have more people in a public beta to fix the known bugs, I’m talking about the efficiency of the quality tests WDC is using. Looking at the last firmware bringing new bugs especially for the composite and component users, my summary is there wasn’t any (beta) testing in this area at all otherwise they wouldn’t have made this version released to the public.

In any way, if you feel fine and satisfied the way WDC is acting/reacting on customer needs at the moment, you seem to belong to the real target market WDC is looking for the WD TV Live devices. That’s fine since it means no need for change to WDC if the most people belong to that group.

Unfortunately, I do not belong to that group. I’m an end user who simply wants to have at least the basic features stable working as promised on the product data sheet and it is not. I’m unsatisfied with the way WDC is trying to correct errors oft he device since one year and I think it’s helpful for WDC to let them know there are displeased users now looking for other vendors. My personal opinion is that it is the lack of resources and the way WDC tries to use the community which caused this situation. Other companies are doing well with restricted beta programs in public like Synology. WDC is setting unrealizable expectations to the community by their ideas forum but in real they’re not able to implement simple bug fixing in a timely manner to keep the end users satisfied.