Cost Free Alternatives to Network Shares

Ok Mike 

Go figure this.  I have 2 Windows Laptops and 2 Windows Desktops. 

I started having ID/Password problems with Desktop 1 for three days that for some reason corrected themselves.  A few days after that I had the same problems with Desktop 2 for two days and then that was corrected with a reboot. Then I had problems with Laptop 1 yesterday.   

So this just can’t be a computer box issue.  Could it be a router or switch issue.  I dunno.  But I can’t assign all the blame to that 1st box anymore. 

Weird. 

Jeff

JRFishman wrote:

I started having ID/Password problems with Desktop 1 for three days that for some reason corrected themselves.  A few days after that I had the same problems with Desktop 2 for two days and then that was corrected with a reboot. Then I had problems with Laptop 1 yesterday.   

 

So this just can’t be a computer box issue.  Could it be a router or switch issue.  I dunno.  But I can’t assign all the blame to that 1st box anymore. 

 

Let me see if I understood you: Several of your Windows computers have randomly started working improperly WRT share passwords, rebooting them fixes the problem, but you take this as proof the problem is NOT with these machines?  Pretty strange logic IMO.  They all run Windows, right?  So why would they not behave similarly?

My personal advice is to purchase a NAS and put everything on it: since I’ve my first one I’ve really forgotten about sharing issues. :slight_smile:

Got to admit iam not grasping that logic either…lol.

If rebooting the machince fixes the problem then its kind of clear the problem is not with the media streamer but the machince in question.

My freenas box and store bought nas have not had a single drop out witht he media streamers i have.

With windows and apple though the os primary fuction is not yet media sharing so its at best hit and miss on how well it works.

With freenas or nasforfree software and store bought nas the primary fuction is to do just that and they work very well.

You can use a older machince and slap freenas on it and control it from your main pc.

I’m considering retiring one of the dektops so that could be an potential NAS box. I really don’t want to spend the money on an NAS device at this point. 

Let me ask you.  If you are getting id/password problems is the Windows Desktop IP address not being recognized by WDTV or are these truly id/password issues with the WDTV 

I’m asking because I believe my router’s DHCP might be changing the IP at times. 

I’m also noticing that I never lose the shares when using Plex Media Server.  But Plex Media Server has its own issues including downsampling of FLAC lossless to 320kbs

Magnus and Ncarver

Here’s the deal

I have two other devices that use Samba Shares to get to those Windows Shares - a Tablet and a Linux laptop.  If those devices don’t lose connections then why would I blame the offending PC’s.  So its not all LOLs.  I would think that if I have problems with those 2 other devices, then I could blame the PC solely.  

Your not listening.

Different devices share differently and you should be relaizing this already the evidence is there bold as day in what you just typed.

A tablet may be using smb just like a laptop with linux on it but how its coded in there and even what version they are using is hugely different…

Both those devices by there nature of thier os are quite likely to have newer versions of smb compared to windows 7 where its years out of date.

Windows smb shares are a after tthought of the os and unless your using the latest 8.1 are using a smb version that quite out of date.Even in windows 8 it still doesn’t work correctly often requiring you to create a new acount just to get it to work.

This is very well known and why there are programs like freenfs are around or windows 2012 server os.

Smb versions say in windows 7 is 3.2 which is assuming its updated rough 5 or 6 years old.

Windows xp smb version  well my neices aren’t that old yet.

There is also of course the router which can also be a huge sticking point.

Does it have updated firmware,does it update ip and conections corectly, is it up for the job.

My linksys 3200 was a major pain with smb and nfs shares but my  asus n66u is a dream with them.

My advice is make sure the router up to date and give freenfs a go its free after all

Also you never compare radically different devices like you did.

Tablets by thier very nature are made to share over wireless so the code in this area is much more robust.

Linux frankly gets updated more often then windows and has always been more streaming consious (**bleep** it invented nfs)

Windows tell windows 7  sharing was a very minor afterthough and frankly a major pain in the butt.

Even the latest version  its still not the main focus yet although it apears microsoft has clued in this is the future.

Sharing.

Nfs…the fastest and most stable method

Smb (samba)  new versions are much improved but windows uses it poor still and even windows 7 runs a older slower version.

Afp… apple try at shareing and frankly something that best stayed away from even on the latest os.

A perfect exmaple is my old readynas duo store bought nas which has maintained connect to the wd since the day i got it.

My windows 7 laptop depending on what day it is and how its feeling may decide its going to share or may not to one device or another.

There a very good reasion i bult a freenfs box from a slightly older pc and stuck a whole bunch of drives and memory in it.

Its a purpose built device ment for storage and sharing that does both very well with the only downtime being for freenfs software upgrades.

Magnus

Also you never compare radically different devices like you did.

C’mon Magnus. I used to work in IT as a developer, a project manager, a technical director and then an Executive for 25 years  You can’t live in today’s world by not having radically different devices (desktops, laptops, smart phones, tablets et al) connect to the same networking or database platform.  

You say the WDTV is not the issue but its Windows, yet how come I have Windows Devices, Linux Devices (wired and wirelessly for the Linux box) and Android Devices connecting to my Windows shares without ever having these types of fails.  To me the most difficult device is the WDTV when it comes to Network Shares and Windows Networking. And if Windows 7 64 isn’t great with SMB shouldn’t WDTV handle that without the issues that I’m seeing at times with WDTV. 

I’m a FIOS user and the router is proprietary.  But I do have switches connected to the router.  If its a switch issue, that I can buy. Switches can certainly be unreliable.  but its hard for me to totally buy into this because the other wired device (a Linux Laptop) connects to a Switch without networking or sharing issues 

To me these various different devices should be able to connect to the lowest common denominator that being Windows.  

I recently wrote this below in another thread, and it is apropo here as well:

The ONLY times I have lost WDTV Network shares is when my (Windows) master browser function failed/disappeared.  Once I learned it was a master browser issue, I permanently solved the problem – a few years ago.  Since my router (and not a PC or WDTV) serves as a permanent master browser, my MB problems are a thing of the past.  If one cannot use a router for this purpose, the only other solution I know of is to keep a “main” PC running all the time as the master browser so that it doesn’t disappear from network.


And BTW, I am a “Comcast” subscriber, and I do not use the plain-jane modem and router they want to rent to me:  Instead, I have a recent Motorola DOC CIS3 modem and a top-rated Asus RT-N66U router that I bought  Bonus:   No monthly rental fees anymore!  No problems, except that a few weeks ago one of my gigabit network switches got gliches and became intermittent by dropping the network signal every once in a while.  I replaced it with a new, same switch, and problems are gone.

If someone seriously wants a good network and especially good internet; purchase very fast internet service and buy your own modem and router – good ones – and set them up correctly!

Yes and i been doing it for 40 plus years and frankly comparing  times merely means we are both older then we want to be.:slight_smile:

The problem isn’t comparing devices here its how they work that a issues.

Its like comparing Hennessey Venom GT to a kia…they both drive but one does it much better then the other.

Thats not the heart of the problem here though its smb on windows thats the issue.

Think of windows sharing as a bumpy road which is actually even in windows 8 is a preety good discrption.

The more modern car (tablet) with the better tech is going to deal with it better and the older kia (pc).

This isn’t a diss on you or you ablity it just pointing out windows smb sharing is badly done.

The wd is hardly the perfect device and not without faults like all media streamers these days but your pointing a finger without ruling anything out .

Instead of arguing with us why haven’t you tested the other methods for sharing mentioned.

Frankly any IT guy worth his salt would not be looking at windows share as a releiabe sharing method and would have tested other options already.

Though it does seem you would rather argue pointlessly then actually fix the problem.

I hopeing MS fixes this in windows 9 but i may be dreaming.

Also now that i think of it wd switched over to using tcp rather then udp which older firmwares used and was prone to problems.

This can be a problem for some cheaper routers and older versions of smb.

I found sometimes setting the pc and wd to static ip gets around this but results differ for everyones hardware.

Though it does seem you would rather argue pointlessly then actually fix the problem.

My dear friend Magnus

 

You say you are not dissing me and then you lecture me that I argue for the sake or arguing.   While you think I’d rather argue pointlessly, I have tried every freebie solution offered in the forum. 

No I have not updated my router and no I don’t want to spend several hundred dollars on an NAS.  but as of now, I have tried every cost free suggestion. 

As of now, I need a free solution and can’t consider an NAS and don’t want to go with a new router at this point for the same cost reasons

So Windows may not do the job well or it may.  but be that as it may, I am stuck in the Windows sand box until I can go NAS (or go NAS with a retired desktop)

How does one set up their router as the Master Browser?

Sorry for being snappy but I’ve really tried to do everything suggested here. 

Magnus33 wrote:

I hopeing MS fixes this in windows 9 but i may be dreaming.

 

Also now that i think of it wd switched over to using tcp rather then udp which older firmwares used and was prone to problems.

This can be a problem for some cheaper routers and older versions of smb.

 

I found sometimes setting the pc and wd to static ip gets around this but results differ for everyones hardware.

the switch from udp to tcp I previously posted about was NFS only

and confirmed by reading /proc/mounts on WD

you can see attempted smb troubleshooting here

http://community.wd.com/t5/WD-TV-Live-Streaming/WANTED-Someone-with-Share-problems-after-2-01-86-that-can-run/m-p/639301#M25712

but still nobody with samba problems stepped up

there’s also quite a few networking things that are hidden on the WD

example primary file handling all networking is a binary simply called networking

with no help output as to what it does,or how to use it, what options it takes

yes, I suspose GPL source code might have it, but I never brothered to see what it does,

it seems to take care of all initial networking everyting

including the start wireless ethernet, smbd, nfs, etc …

it basically starts all networking related items

some more basic items like dnsmasq does not exist, dns appears to be handled by some of the other binaries mentioned

KAD79… Huh?

yeah, there’s a few mistery files regarding WD networking

smbd and nmbd does exist

but dnsmasq binary does not exist

there are some other dns binaries of coarse

like dnsd does exist

and smbd and nmbd are never called by any startup scripts

startup scripts only call /bin/networking

which is a binary file that appears to start all networking related services

attempting to call /bin/networking manually does not produce any output at cmd line

there’s also no help file for instructions on what it does or how to use it

one could probably read the source in the GPL archive, but I’ve never bothered to look it up

KAD79 wrote:

yeah, there’s a few mistery files regarding WD networking

 

smbd and nmbd does exist

 

Kind of a PITA to trouble-shoot since you cannot use any of the options to setup a debug level and get the output. Locked down a bit eh?

-P 

pearl wrote:


KAD79 wrote:

yeah, there’s a few mistery files regarding WD networking

 

smbd and nmbd does exist

 


Kind of a PITA to trouble-shoot since you cannot use any of the options to setup a debug level and get the output. Locked down a bit eh?

 

-P 

since smbd and nmbd does exist

they can be killed and then restarted with options

it’s the /bin/networking that’s a bit of a mystery

but as for smb in general, I don’t have any issues here to trouble shoot

we’d really need somebody with smb problems that’s willing to do packet captures

and if they are even more adventurous they can try my homebrew and test different smb options

or even use tcpdump directly on the WD

but if somebody is actually that willing, then I wouldn’t understand why they would not just mount the smb shares manually and by pass the whole WD samba issue entirely

startup scripts are already in place for that